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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 16 December 2025 [Draft]

16 Dec 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill
Ross, Douglas Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I have the easiest job in the Parliament tonight, which is to open this debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, because my Scottish Conservative colleague Liz Smith, along with her office and the non-Government bills unit, has done all the work—an incredible amount of work—to bring us to this stage. They have achieved something that, at some stages in the process, looked unachievable. However, at any point when there were challenges, Liz Smith got stuck in and overcame them, which has ensured that we, as a Parliament, can vote tonight for the bill to become law. I will be proud to do so.

I am not speaking tonight as convener of the Education, Children and Young People Committee, but as convener I was privileged to sit through the evidence sessions on the bill and to hear from people who are passionate about it, as Liz Smith is, and who wanted to share their experience about what it will achieve for so many others. I am delighted that so many of them are in our public gallery tonight to watch the final element of the bill’s passage.

I will always remember that, when we were constructing our stage 1 report—and this was included in it—a letter by Nick March was read out to the committee, and I want to use those words again tonight. The meeting was on 13 November 2024, so it was more than a year ago, but the words that Nick March read to us about a young pupil called Nevis stuck with me at the time and still stick with me now.

He said:

“Nevis has cerebral palsy. He is a full-time wheelchair user and he needs support with feeding and an adult with him all the time.”

Nick March wanted the committee to hear—and I want the Parliament to hear—the difference that outdoor residential learning made to Nevis. These are Nevis’s words being read out in Nevis’s Parliament as we are able to pass a bill that Nevis supports:

“Rock climbing was awesome! I got to defy gravity and abseil down a mountain at the speed of light! Kayaking was so cool literally. I sailed round an island with my school friends in a storm! I scored a gold at archery! And we all did drumming together at night, and it was really exciting and fun. I’d never done any of those things before ... I can’t do so many things like that at home because they don’t have spaces for kids with wheelchairs to join in ... I think every kid should get the chance to go to camp, have adventures and hang out together.”—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 13 November 2024; c 49-50.]

Nevis articulated very clearly why the bill was so important to Liz Smith, who has committed so much of her parliamentary career to getting it on to the statute book, and why it is so important that the Parliament agrees to the bill tonight. As a result of the bill, there will be so many opportunities for kids such as Nevis, now and in the future, to have experiences that will not only stick with them in their school career but remain with them throughout their entire life.

We heard at committee about the difference that outdoor education makes to classroom environments. People who have one view of a teacher before they go on a week-long residential course might have a totally different view when they come back, and that aids education and the atmosphere and environment in our classrooms.

The bill has so many positives. I was delighted when the committee could agree its general principles and the Parliament overwhelmingly supported it at stage 1, which is why the Parliament should—and will—support it to become law tonight.

Sometimes, there are divisions in the chamber and we strongly disagree with one another. At other times, an individual member is able to work across the political parties to bring a nugget of an idea to fruition. Liz Smith should be very proud of having done that, and the Parliament should be proud that an Opposition member has been able to work with the Government to enact a law that will make a real difference. I am delighted to speak in favour of the bill, and I will be very proud to vote for it.

17:10  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-20138, in the name of Liz Smith, on the Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill at stage ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Throughout all my 16 years as a secondary schoolteacher and my subsequent two decades as a parliamentarian, I have been firmly of the view that outdoor educa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
The Government will not have to pay the full amount, but I have read the supplementary financial memorandum and it does not give a figure for what the Govern...
Liz Smith Con
The costs have not changed since the original discussion of that issue. However, as John Mason knows, at stage 2 we added to the bill a period for its staged...
The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes) SNP
Many people will have been privileged, in their youth, to have enjoyed time away from home at a residential outdoor education facility, often in spectacular ...
John Mason Ind
I want to ask the minister the same question that I asked Liz Smith. The minister talked about cost. Does she have any idea what the Government might have to...
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
Throughout the bill process, I have been clear about the need to gather data to enable us to have a true understanding of the full costs associated with it. ...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I recognise what the minister says about the strength of engagement, but does she recognise that everyone across the chamber will have had communication, eve...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for taking that intervention, minister.
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
I very much recognise those concerns, which I have laid out very clearly to members in the chamber and to committee several times. In fact, I engaged directl...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I have the easiest job in the Parliament tonight, which is to open this debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, because my Scottish Conservative coll...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As we conclude this debate, I do not want to dwell on the journey that the bill has gone through and mention things such as financial memorandums; I want to ...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I follow Martin Whitfield in paying tribute to Liz Smith. At the risk of potentially giving members of my party a bit of buyer’s remorse in relation to their...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I thank Ross Greer for reminding me how old I am. He was in primary 7 in 2006, which was just yesterday for me. I also thank all the staff in the Parliament...
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Willie Rennie LD
On cue, minister.
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
We spoke at length at committee about the number of fantastic outdoor educational opportunities—fair enough; they are not all residential—that many of our sc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for that intervention, Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie LD
I recognise that the minister tried to convince me that progress was made, but whether progress was actually made is another matter. In any case, the working...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We now move to the open debate. 17:23
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I, too, congratulate Liz Smith. I know the work that is needed for a member’s bill. It involves testing the member’s commitment and dealing with obstacles th...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am delighted to stand in support of my colleague and friend Liz Smith’s Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill. Sometimes, we lose sight ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
I hate to be the wet blanket at the party; however, I will start by thanking Liz Smith very much for introducing the bill. I agree with virtually everything ...
Brian Whittle Con
Does John Mason agree that, in addition, that financial memorandum does not include spend to save over a long period of time and that, if we had started 10 y...
John Mason Ind
I agree that there is money to save, but it raises the whole question about preventative spend. We need to spend £1 today, but where is that £1 going to come...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to closing speeches. I call Ross Greer. 17:35
Ross Greer Green
In my opening speech, I mentioned the value of learning about our natural environment in our natural environment and the knowledge and skills that are accumu...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
Thank you. I call Paul O’Kane. 17:39
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to close the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour. I recognise that I have come somewhat late to the process at stage 3, but I have been followin...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
In the time that I have served on the Parliament’s Education, Children and Young People Committee, there has been a recurring theme that teachers, parents an...