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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 16 December 2025 [Draft]

16 Dec 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill
Don-Innes, Natalie SNP Renfrewshire North and West Watch on SPTV

Throughout the bill process, I have been clear about the need to gather data to enable us to have a true understanding of the full costs associated with it. Amendments that have been made at stages 2 and 3 will allow us to do that. The removal of the duty to fund will allow us to look at alternative sources of funding, which I have discussed with the committee and the member in charge. Although finalised costs are not available at the moment, I believe that the steps taken at stages 2 and 3 will allow us a better period of time to gather data prior to the bill’s commencement.

We must ensure that wider forms of outdoor learning are not crowded out due to prioritising a focus on residential outdoor education. However, ultimately, we concluded that all such issues could be overcome or addressed in the legislative process and the implementation phase, as I have just outlined to Mr Mason.

The Education, Children and Young People Committee heard a range of evidence on the positive impact that residential outdoor education can have, from helping to strengthen pupil-teacher relationships to building a young person’s confidence and improving wellbeing. Many schools already provide that experience as part of supporting pupils’ transition from primary to secondary school. It is for those reasons that the Scottish Government provided additional financial support to the sector during the Covid pandemic, so that it might survive the impact of that.

Research also suggests that the residential experience can provide added benefits for young people in more socioeconomically deprived circumstances. In that context, it is not surprising that the issue of equity has been a key one that has been explored during the bill process. Ahead of stage 2, I discussed the question of equity with Liz Smith at some length. In particular, we reflected on the capacity of the outdoor education sector to deliver for children and young people with complex and multiple support needs. I thank the outdoor education sector for the input and insight that it provided on the matter and on other matters during the bill process. In particular, I welcomed the engagement of the Association of Heads of Outdoor Education Centres, the Outward Bound Trust and PGL Beyond.

Those discussions and others have demonstrated that realising the intent and ambition of the bill will take time. However, that implementation process will be easier to achieve as a result of Parliament agreeing to allow for a longer lead-in time to commencement. That approach will enable key partners, including the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland and teacher trade unions, to engage more fully with the requirements of the bill and will help us to work collaboratively and collectively to deliver on the statutory duties. I again thank all those organisations for their engagement during the bill process and for helping to inform our thinking on how best to respond to the bill’s requirements.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-20138, in the name of Liz Smith, on the Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill at stage ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Throughout all my 16 years as a secondary schoolteacher and my subsequent two decades as a parliamentarian, I have been firmly of the view that outdoor educa...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
The Government will not have to pay the full amount, but I have read the supplementary financial memorandum and it does not give a figure for what the Govern...
Liz Smith Con
The costs have not changed since the original discussion of that issue. However, as John Mason knows, at stage 2 we added to the bill a period for its staged...
The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes) SNP
Many people will have been privileged, in their youth, to have enjoyed time away from home at a residential outdoor education facility, often in spectacular ...
John Mason Ind
I want to ask the minister the same question that I asked Liz Smith. The minister talked about cost. Does she have any idea what the Government might have to...
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
Throughout the bill process, I have been clear about the need to gather data to enable us to have a true understanding of the full costs associated with it. ...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I recognise what the minister says about the strength of engagement, but does she recognise that everyone across the chamber will have had communication, eve...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for taking that intervention, minister.
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
I very much recognise those concerns, which I have laid out very clearly to members in the chamber and to committee several times. In fact, I engaged directl...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I have the easiest job in the Parliament tonight, which is to open this debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, because my Scottish Conservative coll...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As we conclude this debate, I do not want to dwell on the journey that the bill has gone through and mention things such as financial memorandums; I want to ...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I follow Martin Whitfield in paying tribute to Liz Smith. At the risk of potentially giving members of my party a bit of buyer’s remorse in relation to their...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I thank Ross Greer for reminding me how old I am. He was in primary 7 in 2006, which was just yesterday for me. I also thank all the staff in the Parliament...
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Willie Rennie LD
On cue, minister.
Natalie Don-Innes SNP
We spoke at length at committee about the number of fantastic outdoor educational opportunities—fair enough; they are not all residential—that many of our sc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for that intervention, Mr Rennie.
Willie Rennie LD
I recognise that the minister tried to convince me that progress was made, but whether progress was actually made is another matter. In any case, the working...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We now move to the open debate. 17:23
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I, too, congratulate Liz Smith. I know the work that is needed for a member’s bill. It involves testing the member’s commitment and dealing with obstacles th...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I am delighted to stand in support of my colleague and friend Liz Smith’s Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill. Sometimes, we lose sight ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
I hate to be the wet blanket at the party; however, I will start by thanking Liz Smith very much for introducing the bill. I agree with virtually everything ...
Brian Whittle Con
Does John Mason agree that, in addition, that financial memorandum does not include spend to save over a long period of time and that, if we had started 10 y...
John Mason Ind
I agree that there is money to save, but it raises the whole question about preventative spend. We need to spend £1 today, but where is that £1 going to come...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to closing speeches. I call Ross Greer. 17:35
Ross Greer Green
In my opening speech, I mentioned the value of learning about our natural environment in our natural environment and the knowledge and skills that are accumu...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
Thank you. I call Paul O’Kane. 17:39
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to close the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour. I recognise that I have come somewhat late to the process at stage 3, but I have been followin...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
In the time that I have served on the Parliament’s Education, Children and Young People Committee, there has been a recurring theme that teachers, parents an...