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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 16 December 2025 [Draft]

16 Dec 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Motion of No Confidence
Swinney, John SNP Perthshire North Watch on SPTV

The safety and wellbeing of children in Scotland is a paramount concern of all of us as members of Parliament, no matter our politics or whether we are members of an Opposition party or a supporter of the Scottish Government. The safety and wellbeing of children in Scotland matter to us all.

Like many members here today, I have spoken to survivors of abuse to hear about their experiences—Russell Findlay has quoted some of my recent experience in this respect. I discussed those issues with Taylor and her family last week, in one of many conversations that I have had with abuse survivors. There is no doubt in my mind, and it is obvious to all, that many people have been fundamentally failed by the system over the years. That is shameful, and facing up to that awful reality has underpinned the approach of the Scottish Government.

Every member of my Government is committed to doing everything possible to deliver justice and the possibility of some element of closure for victims of the past, as well as to keeping safe the children of today and tomorrow. That sentiment anchors the steps that have been taken by my Government in addressing those issues—and those issues are being addressed, contrary to what Mr Findlay has just said to Parliament.

First, we established a year ago the expert, multi-agency national child sexual abuse and exploitation strategic group, which is considering previous inquiries, evidence and practices across social work, education, the police and healthcare in order to agree further actions and recommendations for national improvement and reform. Professor Alexis Jay, who has always been a member of that group, has now been appointed as its independent chair.

Secondly, an independent national review of the response to group-based child sexual abuse and exploitation in Scotland is being established. That will be undertaken by the Care Inspectorate, His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland, His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Education and Healthcare Improvement Scotland. The inspectorates are statutorily independent of Government and the agencies that they scrutinise, and they are able to compel public authorities to provide information that they request. Professor Jay has agreed to provide expert advice at key stages of the process.

Alongside that work, Police Scotland is continuing to review child sexual abuse and exploitation cases. I received an update from Police Scotland on that important work when we met recently, and Opposition leaders and spokespeople from across the chamber have been offered a briefing with Police Scotland on that work in the new year.

We will also draw on the published evidence and reports of the independent Scottish child abuse inquiry, which was established by Angela Constance in 2015 and which has been considering the abuse of children in the care of the state. The inquiry has now commenced phase 10 and has made it clear that there is scope to hear and act on evidence relating to group-based child sexual abuse and exploitation where that falls within its terms of reference. All that activity underlines the seriousness with which my Government takes the issue and our determination to leave no stone unturned, guided by expert opinion.

On several occasions in the chamber, we have discussed the comments that are at the heart of today’s debate, so I will reiterate what has already been stated. During stage 3 of the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill, in relation to Liam Kerr’s amendment that would have meant that the new victims commissioner should carry out research into child sexual abuse, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs raised awareness of the work that was led by Professor Alexis Jay. The cabinet secretary noted specifically that Professor Jay had been the chair of an independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in England and Wales, and drew on a comment, made in the past, that, in regard to child sexual abuse and exploitation,

“people should just get on with it”.

Following correspondence with Professor Jay, it was minuted at the strategic group’s meeting in October that the quote was correct and was from January but was not made in relation to the amendment or the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill. In the debate in September, the cabinet secretary did not state that Professor Jay was speaking directly about the amendment. She made a general point, drawing on the publicly stated views of Professor Jay—[Interruption.]

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-20135, in the name of Russell Findlay, on a motion of no confidence. I invite members who wish to speak i...
Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Today, my party brings forward a motion of no confidence in the justice secretary. I will now explain why that is a necessary course of action. In my four y...
The First Minister (John Swinney) SNP
The safety and wellbeing of children in Scotland is a paramount concern of all of us as members of Parliament, no matter our politics or whether we are membe...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Let us hear the First Minister.
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
That is absolutely scandalous.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Mr Kerr! Thank you.
The First Minister SNP
I acknowledge that members of Parliament and members of the public will draw different conclusions from the words that we all use. Interruption.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Let us hear the First Minister.
The First Minister SNP
I know—and I imagine that most members know this, too—that Angela Constance is a sincere minister who would never address Parliament in a way that would in a...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Sorry, First Minister. There is a lot of noise in the chamber. I would very much like to hear those whom I have called to speak, and I am sure that other pa...
The First Minister SNP
That act will transform victims’ and witnesses’ experiences of the justice system and ensure that they are treated with compassion. As all those bills were p...
Anas Sarwar (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I speak in favour of the motion of no confidence in Angela Constance, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs. I do so for one reason above all ot...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
Yes.
Anas Sarwar Lab
Can you?
John Mason Ind
Yes.
Anas Sarwar Lab
Wow. Shame on you for shouting that out, Mr Mason. For every single—
Keith Brown (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) SNP
Shame on you!
Anas Sarwar Lab
Shame on you too, Mr Brown, for shouting that out. I have quoted the words of the mother of a victim. For them, this Parliament should support this motion o...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I am profoundly sad that we have got to this point. The Scottish Government can and should have handled this issue far better, but I doubt that that would ha...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Let us hear one another.
Ross Greer Green
However, the current guidance on RSHP education is so out of date that it does not even have a section on the importance of consent. The updated draft guidan...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you, members. We will hear Mr Greer.
Ross Greer Green
The Greens will be voting against the motion. 14:53
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (LD) LD
The Scottish Liberal Democrats take no pleasure in this debate. We came to the view that today’s vote is regrettable, and it was avoidable. When we deliberat...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
We have been down the road of calling for a vote of no confidence in ministers before. In the past, we have called for people in charge to step down because ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
That concludes the debate on the motion of no confidence and we move to the question. The question is, that motion S6M-20135, in the name of Russell Findlay...
The Presiding Officer NPA
There will be a division. We will suspend the meeting to allow members to access the digital voting system. 15:03 Meeting suspended. 15:09 On resuming—
The Presiding Officer NPA
We come to the vote on motion S6M-20135, in the name of Russell Findlay. Members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed.
Keith Brown SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I could not connect. I would have voted no.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Thank you, Mr Brown. We will ensure that that is recorded. For Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jer...