Hansard

The Convener Con

Our second item of business is consideration of a draft statutory instrument. The Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, in its report, made no comment o...

The Cabinet Secretary for Transport (Fiona Hyslop) SNP

Good morning, and thank you for inviting me to attend to discuss the draft SSI. Scottish Rail Holdings Ltd oversees the delivery of rail passenger services ...

The Convener Con

Thank you very much, cabinet secretary. I understand the reasons that you have given. How much were the people of Scotland paying for the previous audit?

Fiona Hyslop SNP

On the basis that that audit was not being done by the Auditor General, due to lack of capacity, it was outsourced. In 2023-24, the cost totalled £515,000; i...

The Convener Con

That sum—£515,000—is a huge amount of money for that business. You will save money on that. I assume that there will be some cost to the Auditor General in c...

Fiona Hyslop SNP

No, we will ensure that the Auditor General is recompensed for the duties that are carried out on behalf of the public.

The Convener Con

How much will that be?

Fiona Hyslop SNP

Well, the audit has not been done yet.

Lee Shedden (Transport Scotland)

There should be a significant saving compared with the costs of the external auditor. We do not yet know the amount, as the Auditor General has yet to advise...

Fiona Hyslop SNP

It is a good thing.

The Convener Con

Sorry, I am scratching my head at the fact that the Auditor General has agreed to take it on without any indication of what additional resources will be give...

Fiona Hyslop SNP

I am sure that he has. It is not for me to speak on behalf of the Auditor General, but it has been agreed.

The Convener Con

Given that it has been agreed, you will know how much money is involved. How much is it?

Fiona Hyslop SNP

We are expecting the cost to reduce to £300,000 to £350,000. It is wider in scope, because public finances are involved, which the Auditor General has expert...

The Convener Con

So you are saving about £165,000?

Fiona Hyslop SNP

Yes.

Douglas Lumsden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con

I have one question. The subsidiaries can be audited by Audit Scotland because they receive all or most of their funding from a public body that is already a...

Fiona Hyslop SNP

I am not quite sure. The funding for Caledonian Sleeper and ScotRail comes to more than £800 million, which is a significant amount. You refer to the duties ...

Douglas Lumsden Con

I am looking at the Companies Act 2006, which refers to companies that are “entirely or substantially” funded by a public body. You have said that the figure...

Fiona Hyslop SNP

It is fair to say that there are a few lines with good levels of income, not least the Glasgow to Edinburgh line, but the vast majority of our rail services,...

Douglas Lumsden Con

I am trying to work out whether that is where the company gets most of its funding from.

Fiona Hyslop SNP

No.

Douglas Lumsden Con

The act refers to all or most of a company’s funding.

Fiona Hyslop SNP

The Scottish Government provides most of the funding, because the service is subsidised.

Douglas Lumsden Con

So, you are saying that it is not most of the funding overall. Is that correct?

Fiona Hyslop SNP

Convener, can you help me understand where the question might be going? I am not really sure.

Douglas Lumsden Con

I am trying to make sure that what we are being asked to approve today is actually legal.

Fiona Hyslop SNP

Lee Shedden might want to come in and explain the overall funding situation. The vast majority of the funding is public, which is why the company is audited ...

Lee Shedden

It is right to say that most of the funding is provided by the Scottish Government, which covers just over 50 per cent of the normal operating costs. On top ...

Douglas Lumsden Con

So, there is not really any risk of us having to undo this because the funding is not mostly public. That is what I am trying to understand.