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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 December 2025

10 Dec 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security Spending

I want a caring system that respects people when they are in need. That is why the Liberal Democrats supported the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018, and why we believe in the fairness, dignity and respect approach. We believed that, when we were creating a new welfare state, we needed to come together to create those new central powers for it.

One of my constituents told me that, unlike under the previous Department for Work and Pensions system, she was believed—and her face showed the relief of being believed. She was right to think that she deserved that respect, and that is why I was pleased that that approach had filtered through into the Scottish system. It is also why I am pleased that the two-child limit has gone, because, in effect, it was punishing the children rather than the adults. That is not an appropriate way to manage a welfare system.

However, we can agree that the current system is unsustainable and that, when we reach it, the forecasted £2 billion gap will test us quite considerably. It is also true that the levels of economic inactivity—said to be one in four or one in five; the figures fluctuate—are too high. That means not only that there is a significant burden on the social security system but that we are losing valuable taxpayers to our economy.

On both fronts, the system is not sustainable. I think that we can all accept that we face an enormous challenge, but I am more concerned about the impact on individuals, because the level of economic inactivity in Scotland is far too high.

Unlike in the 1980s and 1990s, when those who were economically inactive were primarily men who had worked in industrial complexes and whose bodies were battered and bruised, we are now talking about younger people who are neurodivergent or who have mental health issues. We cannot afford for them to be economically inactive for the rest of their lives.

In the 1980s and 1990s, those men lost perhaps about 20 years’ worth of economic activity. If we do not support into work the people who I have just mentioned, they will be lost to work for the rest of their lives, which will be bad for them and for our economy. We need to deal with that.

The most depressing thing about the debate is the silo mentality that surrounds it. We must have rounded services that help those people. I have an example of a young person in my constituency in his 20s. When he was at school, he received support for his attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. When he left school, he went off the rails. He has been lost to the economy for four years now, because there is no adult neurodivergent service in Fife. That situation is replicated across the country.

What is the national health service doing? Does it not understand that it is important that it orientates its services to help the economy? If we do not get those people back to work, we will not be able to raise the taxes to pay for the vital NHS services that we rely on. We must have a rounded system.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-20056, in the name of Alexander Stewart, on controlling the rising benefits bill in Scotland. I invite me...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Once again, it falls to the Scottish Conservatives to highlight the ever-increasing benefits bill that Scottish taxpayers face. My motion highlights the unsu...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Ind) Ind
Would the member like to outline which devolved benefits he would take away and how he would do that?
Alexander Stewart Con
We need to have a discussion about universality in benefits. We have already spoken about the SNP’s light touch when it comes to keeping records on benefits,...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
Can the member tell the chamber whether the Scottish Conservatives voted for or against all of the secondary legislation that built in the eligibility for AD...
Alexander Stewart Con
I think that you will find that the Conservatives did vote for it, but you have to understand that your light-touch approach, which I will come on to speak a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Always speak through the chair.
Alexander Stewart Con
We will speak about that light-touch approach and we can discuss the number of people who, as part of the benefits process, have been receiving funds in erro...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Alexander Stewart Con
I am running out of time. If that decision does not sum up the SNP Government’s high-tax, high-welfare approach to government, I do not know what does. Hav...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Shirley-Anne Somerville to speak to and move amendment S6M-20056.3. 14:55
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
We have just heard the Scottish Conservatives set out an apparent repudiation of the benefits system that this Parliament voted for unanimously, and which I ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Does the cabinet secretary recognise that there is considerable public support for the two-child cap, because it is seen to be about the incentives that are ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I thank Liz Smith for her question, but it is important to recognise that, contrary to some of the incorrect narratives that are currently in play, the Resol...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I will make some progress, if Mr Hoy will forgive me. Who knows what will happen in our lives? A marriage break-up or caring responsibilities could make it ...
Craig Hoy Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
If Mr Hoy had wanted more time, he should have given the whole afternoon to this debate, and I would have been delighted to discuss the issue with him in fur...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I begin by addressing the framing of the debate. Titling the motion “Controlling the Rising Benefits Bill” is not just unhelpful; it misunderstands the purpo...
Liz Smith Con
The debate ought to be about incentives. It is absolutely fine that the current benefit system provides for those who are most in need. The issue is the syst...
Claire Baker Lab
The evidence shows that, unfortunately, the two-child cap just led to more people living in poverty; it did not do anything to incentivise people into employ...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will Claire Baker give way on that point?
Claire Baker Lab
I am very short of time—sorry. The Scottish Government has chosen to expand entitlements, but those choices must be matched with credible financial planning...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Our social security system embodies the duty that we have to one another. It provides a best start grant when a new Scot is born and the Scottish child payme...
Craig Hoy Con
Does Maggie Chapman accept that the interplay between universal credit and the Scottish child payment is resulting in some people choosing not to work additi...
Maggie Chapman Green
Quite frankly, I think that that has more to do with problems with universal credit than anything else—the restrictions that are placed on people who want to...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Please resume your seat for a second, Ms Chapman. Unbelievably, a conversation is going on from a sedentary position between two members of front-bench team...
Maggie Chapman Green
Of those who have applied for ADP in the past year, 63 per cent have been rejected, which is worse than for PIP—the independent Scottish Fiscal Commission an...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I want a caring system that respects people when they are in need. That is why the Liberal Democrats supported the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018, and w...
Stephen Kerr Con
Will Willie Rennie give way?