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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 December 2025

10 Dec 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security Spending
Chapman, Maggie Green North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

Of those who have applied for ADP in the past year, 63 per cent have been rejected, which is worse than for PIP—the independent Scottish Fiscal Commission and the Resolution Foundation agree on that—and we know that many people do not get the right decision the first time. During the ADP’s short history, 60,000 people have asked for a second opinion. Some have had to go all the way to court to get what they are owed. That shows that we need more money in those kinds of social security payments, not less, as the Scottish Conservatives seem to be arguing.

I agree with the cabinet secretary about the need to have a social security system that is there for us all in case we need it, but disabled people are struggling now. When I raised that last week, the Minister for Equalities did not answer my question about what changes, if any, have been made in Social Security Scotland to lead to the change in the figures. I hope that the cabinet secretary can tell us why so many of the stats are going in the wrong direction: there are more rejections, more appeals and fewer people getting the highest rates that they deserve.

The Conservatives ran the social security system across the UK for 14 years. The motion is evidence, as if any more were needed, that the party learned nothing from its mistakes—not from those who took their own lives out of despair because of benefit sanctions and losing disability support, and not from the increase by thousands of per cent in the number of food parcels that are given out because social security does not meet people’s basic daily needs. The Conservatives have not learned that, if we want a society that is prosperous, fair and equal, a social security system for all is vital.

15:09  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-20056, in the name of Alexander Stewart, on controlling the rising benefits bill in Scotland. I invite me...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Once again, it falls to the Scottish Conservatives to highlight the ever-increasing benefits bill that Scottish taxpayers face. My motion highlights the unsu...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Ind) Ind
Would the member like to outline which devolved benefits he would take away and how he would do that?
Alexander Stewart Con
We need to have a discussion about universality in benefits. We have already spoken about the SNP’s light touch when it comes to keeping records on benefits,...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
Can the member tell the chamber whether the Scottish Conservatives voted for or against all of the secondary legislation that built in the eligibility for AD...
Alexander Stewart Con
I think that you will find that the Conservatives did vote for it, but you have to understand that your light-touch approach, which I will come on to speak a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Always speak through the chair.
Alexander Stewart Con
We will speak about that light-touch approach and we can discuss the number of people who, as part of the benefits process, have been receiving funds in erro...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Alexander Stewart Con
I am running out of time. If that decision does not sum up the SNP Government’s high-tax, high-welfare approach to government, I do not know what does. Hav...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Shirley-Anne Somerville to speak to and move amendment S6M-20056.3. 14:55
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
We have just heard the Scottish Conservatives set out an apparent repudiation of the benefits system that this Parliament voted for unanimously, and which I ...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Does the cabinet secretary recognise that there is considerable public support for the two-child cap, because it is seen to be about the incentives that are ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I thank Liz Smith for her question, but it is important to recognise that, contrary to some of the incorrect narratives that are currently in play, the Resol...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I will make some progress, if Mr Hoy will forgive me. Who knows what will happen in our lives? A marriage break-up or caring responsibilities could make it ...
Craig Hoy Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
If Mr Hoy had wanted more time, he should have given the whole afternoon to this debate, and I would have been delighted to discuss the issue with him in fur...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
I begin by addressing the framing of the debate. Titling the motion “Controlling the Rising Benefits Bill” is not just unhelpful; it misunderstands the purpo...
Liz Smith Con
The debate ought to be about incentives. It is absolutely fine that the current benefit system provides for those who are most in need. The issue is the syst...
Claire Baker Lab
The evidence shows that, unfortunately, the two-child cap just led to more people living in poverty; it did not do anything to incentivise people into employ...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will Claire Baker give way on that point?
Claire Baker Lab
I am very short of time—sorry. The Scottish Government has chosen to expand entitlements, but those choices must be matched with credible financial planning...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Our social security system embodies the duty that we have to one another. It provides a best start grant when a new Scot is born and the Scottish child payme...
Craig Hoy Con
Does Maggie Chapman accept that the interplay between universal credit and the Scottish child payment is resulting in some people choosing not to work additi...
Maggie Chapman Green
Quite frankly, I think that that has more to do with problems with universal credit than anything else—the restrictions that are placed on people who want to...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Please resume your seat for a second, Ms Chapman. Unbelievably, a conversation is going on from a sedentary position between two members of front-bench team...
Maggie Chapman Green
Of those who have applied for ADP in the past year, 63 per cent have been rejected, which is worse than for PIP—the independent Scottish Fiscal Commission an...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I want a caring system that respects people when they are in need. That is why the Liberal Democrats supported the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018, and w...
Stephen Kerr Con
Will Willie Rennie give way?