Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 25 November 2025
25 Nov 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
The cabinet secretary opened her comments by saying that the issue is finely balanced and sensitive and that the Government has looked for a middle route. However, it is clear that, in some cases, there is no middle route. I think that many members who speak in this debate will find the bill difficult in that it does not deliver the middle route that the cabinet secretary has talked about.
I thank the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee for its work, and I thank all those who gave evidence and the organisations that provided helpful briefings ahead of today’s stage 1 debate.
I believe that it is important for children to have a say in their education, but any change must also respect the crucial role that parents and carers play in shaping their upbringing. We should never forget that. Too often, debates do not include the supporters of our young people—their parents and carers. Scottish Conservatives are concerned that the bill risks creating confusion and conflict, not only within families, with unclear safeguards around how—
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-19866, in the name of Jenny Gilruth, on the Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment o...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth)
SNP
I am pleased to present the Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill. The bill is an importan...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
Liberal Democrats will support the bill tonight, but we share the considerable concerns of stakeholders in the chamber and beyond it about part 2 and the Gov...
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I will come on to talk about part 2 later, but I recognise that there are a number of different views, particularly about part 2 and on stakeholders’ views. ...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I am happy to give way to Mr Whitfield.
Martin Whitfield
Lab
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary, given the plethora of choice that she had. The cabinet secretary has already spoken about the complexity between edu...
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
The Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee raised and reported on that point. The 1980 act does not currently separate those two distinct parts...
Stephen Kerr
Con
If we could go back to the issue of the rights of the child for a moment, I understand that that is a focus of the cabinet secretary’s speech, but she said t...
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I do not necessarily follow Mr Kerr’s line of questioning. The amendment to the 1980 act that is being proposed does not allow children an independent right ...
Martin Whitfield
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I am mindful of the time, Presiding Officer, but I will do so.
Martin Whitfield
Lab
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for giving so much time to interventions. Does the Scottish Government recognise that the potential of the exemption t...
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I thank Mr Whitfield for his question. In relation to the exemption being replicated in other legislation, it is important to note that a similar safeguard a...
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I would like to make some progress, but I am happy to take interventions in closing. Those organisations, as well as children and young people, have been br...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
I call Karen Adam, on behalf of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. 14:37
Karen Adam (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak on the bill in my capacity as convener of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. It is a short bill wi...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Ind
The member is linking religious observance and religious education, but questions have previously been raised about that. Did the committee look at that poin...
Karen Adam
SNP
I will come to that point in my speech. The difference between religious observance and religious and moral education did come up in committee.
Stephen Kerr
Con
The convener said that there is little or no data on withdrawals. Did the committee have any concerns about that? Why would we legislate in an area on which ...
Karen Adam
SNP
We did not doubt that withdrawal is happening—there is evidence that it is. I was referring to the specific and particular data that we wanted to see in orde...
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
Does Karen Adam recognise that capacity is defined in several different age brackets by various acts of this Parliament? I have sought to clarify that and br...
Karen Adam
SNP
It is not a committee bill—it is a Scottish Government bill. We had a great deal of discussion on the age at which a child could have capacity, but the major...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con)
Con
The cabinet secretary opened her comments by saying that the issue is finely balanced and sensitive and that the Government has looked for a middle route. Ho...
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Miles Briggs
Con
I will.
Jenny Gilruth
SNP
I am interested in Mr Briggs’s point, because our approach maintains that only parents may initiate a withdrawal from RO or RME. Mr Briggs also mentioned con...
Miles Briggs
Con
I do not disagree with some of the points that the cabinet secretary has made. The issue is about balance. Earlier, she outlined a system of opt-in and opt-o...