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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 November 2025

25 Nov 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Adam, Karen SNP Banffshire and Buchan Coast Watch on SPTV

We did not doubt that withdrawal is happening—there is evidence that it is. I was referring to the specific and particular data that we wanted to see in order to know and understand the issue a bit better. We have asked the Scottish Government to look into providing us with that data.

We have asked the Scottish Government to undertake research to better understand how withdrawal is monitored, and to look at what schools put in place for young people who have been withdrawn. As it stands, if withdrawals continue to be at a low level, the impact of the bill might be minimal, but its impact must be monitored, as greater numbers of withdrawals could have a significant impact on schools.

I turn to the main concerns about part 1 of the bill. First, the committee heard concerns about the bill’s conflation of religious observance and religious and moral education. Under the bill, withdrawal from both is treated in the same way. However, witnesses told the committee that the two should not be treated equally. It was suggested that withdrawal should apply only to religious observance. A majority of the committee agreed with that, recommending that

“opting out from RME should not be possible for either young people or their parents/guardians. In an ever more fragmented society, RME seems an increasingly important subject and one from which the Committee considers children should not be withdrawing.”

We note the Scottish Government’s reasoning for not adopting that approach, but we urge it to reflect again and to lodge amendments in that respect. That approach has been adopted in Wales, and we do not see why it could not be adopted in Scotland, too.

We also heard concerns that familial conflict might be precipitated as a result of the bill. We recognise that there is the potential for such conflict, and we urge the Scottish Government to monitor the impact of the bill and ensure that schools have the resources and training to enable them to meet those challenges.

Witnesses also expressed disappointment about the lack of an independent right for the child to opt out of religious observance. The bill provides a right for the child to opt into religious observance and religious and moral education where a parent has exercised their right to withdraw a pupil, but it provides no right to independently opt out. In that regard, the bill falls short of meeting the concluding observations made by the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child.

While we recognise the support for that independent right, a majority of the committee understood why the cabinet secretary had sought to chart a middle ground on the issue in seeking only to make provision for the opt-in. However, we still appreciate that there are strong arguments for that independent right, and a majority of the committee agreed to invite the cabinet secretary to consider making provision for that in future legislation.

Some of the evidence that was presented to the committee expressed concern about the absence of a prescribed age at which a child is considered to be capable of forming a view on withdrawal. It was suggested that that would place undue pressure on teachers to make decisions on capacity. Others suggested, however, that teachers are making those kinds of decisions on capacity all the time.

A majority of the committee agreed with the approach that is taken in the bill not to prescribe an age at which a child is considered to have capacity. However, we recognise that that will present challenges for teachers, and they will need to be supported and resourced to make those decisions.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-19866, in the name of Jenny Gilruth, on the Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment o...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I am pleased to present the Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill. The bill is an importan...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Liberal Democrats will support the bill tonight, but we share the considerable concerns of stakeholders in the chamber and beyond it about part 2 and the Gov...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I will come on to talk about part 2 later, but I recognise that there are a number of different views, particularly about part 2 and on stakeholders’ views. ...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am happy to give way to Mr Whitfield.
Martin Whitfield Lab
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary, given the plethora of choice that she had. The cabinet secretary has already spoken about the complexity between edu...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
The Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee raised and reported on that point. The 1980 act does not currently separate those two distinct parts...
Stephen Kerr Con
If we could go back to the issue of the rights of the child for a moment, I understand that that is a focus of the cabinet secretary’s speech, but she said t...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I do not necessarily follow Mr Kerr’s line of questioning. The amendment to the 1980 act that is being proposed does not allow children an independent right ...
Martin Whitfield Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am mindful of the time, Presiding Officer, but I will do so.
Martin Whitfield Lab
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for giving so much time to interventions. Does the Scottish Government recognise that the potential of the exemption t...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I thank Mr Whitfield for his question. In relation to the exemption being replicated in other legislation, it is important to note that a similar safeguard a...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I would like to make some progress, but I am happy to take interventions in closing. Those organisations, as well as children and young people, have been br...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Karen Adam, on behalf of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. 14:37
Karen Adam (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak on the bill in my capacity as convener of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. It is a short bill wi...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
The member is linking religious observance and religious education, but questions have previously been raised about that. Did the committee look at that poin...
Karen Adam SNP
I will come to that point in my speech. The difference between religious observance and religious and moral education did come up in committee.
Stephen Kerr Con
The convener said that there is little or no data on withdrawals. Did the committee have any concerns about that? Why would we legislate in an area on which ...
Karen Adam SNP
We did not doubt that withdrawal is happening—there is evidence that it is. I was referring to the specific and particular data that we wanted to see in orde...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
Does Karen Adam recognise that capacity is defined in several different age brackets by various acts of this Parliament? I have sought to clarify that and br...
Karen Adam SNP
It is not a committee bill—it is a Scottish Government bill. We had a great deal of discussion on the age at which a child could have capacity, but the major...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
The cabinet secretary opened her comments by saying that the issue is finely balanced and sensitive and that the Government has looked for a middle route. Ho...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Miles Briggs Con
I will.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am interested in Mr Briggs’s point, because our approach maintains that only parents may initiate a withdrawal from RO or RME. Mr Briggs also mentioned con...
Miles Briggs Con
I do not disagree with some of the points that the cabinet secretary has made. The issue is about balance. Earlier, she outlined a system of opt-in and opt-o...