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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 19 November 2025

19 Nov 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education

Teachers and staff do some really good things in schools. They achieve an awful lot and transform young people’s lives, and we should recognise that. However, I sometimes think that the Government is a hindrance rather than a help in that regard. We have massive challenges in our schools with behaviour, additional support needs and absence, which are all interconnected.

Moreover, many teachers leave the profession because they have just had enough—they are fed up with the regular attacks and the challenges of coping with the fact that 40 or 50 per cent of their classes, sometimes more, have additional support needs without the appropriate support to help them.

There is, of course, the long-vaunted closing of the poverty-related attainment gap, which has basically not changed since Nicola Sturgeon promised to close it about 10 years ago. In addition, international performance data triggered a serious debate about the performance of Scottish education.

The Government has lost its way. It spends most of its time repairing the damage that it caused in the first place, rejects the reviews that it commissioned and is failing to deliver on its own promises. Let us consider teacher contact time. It was a big promise, which the Government was supposed to have delivered by now. Although the last SNP manifesto promised that it would be 90 minutes a day, we know that it is 90 minutes a week. Teachers are furious, so much so that they are talking about going on strike at the start of next year. We should have delivered that promise by now, but the SNP has failed to do so and is typically blaming somebody else for that failure.

Then there is the poverty-related attainment gap. Although the cabinet secretary has not mentioned it, within a few months we are supposed to have closed the gap. The reality is that, although we are supposed to have made that progress, the gap has flatlined over the past few years, particularly in secondary school. It is worth reminding people—I know that it is boring—that the then First Minister said that we would judge her on education. However, she is nowhere to be seen now and the cabinet secretary does not even talk about that promise any more.

The education secretary has scrapped the regional collaboratives that the now First Minister introduced. However, you will notice that she continues to refer repeatedly to the fact that local authorities—32 of them—run the Scottish education system, with a hint that she wants to centralise education. If that is what she wants, she should come out and say it rather than just hint at it. If that is her policy, let us have that discussion. I do not think that Scotland wants to get into another debate about structures, just as we have done in the debate about skills. We should focus on the challenges that we face rather than have diversionary debates about structures.

On additional support needs, the cabinet secretary celebrates recruiting more ASN teachers, but it was this Government that cut the number of teachers in the first place, so it is not something that we should celebrate.

Finally, there was the Hayward review. That was commissioned by the Government and spent months—years—debating the issue and gathering the support of many people across the education world. However, as soon as the education secretary got a hold of it, she in effect rejected it.

The Government has no real vision. I do not really understand what it is trying to achieve. I would love it to focus, for instance, on parity of esteem between vocational and academic education, which would make a transformational difference to many young people who get lost at school because school does not fit their needs. I would love a proper programme of consequences and boundaries to empower teachers to manage their classrooms. I would love best practice on dealing with additional support needs to be shared across the country, so that young people with those needs get chances just like everyone else.

However, the Government is just lost. It does not seem to know what it wants to do with education. I just wish that that would change.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-19754, in the name of Pam Duncan-Glancy, on education. I invite members who wish to speak in the debate t...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I apologise to members and, in particular to Bob Doris and Jamie Hepburn, for getting the two confused in my closing remarks in the previous debate.
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) SNP
Hear, hear!
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I am pleased to bring this debate to the chamber, which is motivated by my deep concern about the deteriorating learning and working environment in schools i...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
Doom and gloom have haunted the Scotland national men’s football team since we last qualified for the world cup in 1998, but last night they gave us all—a na...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Did the cabinet secretary not hear the final minute—or minute and a half—of my speech, in which I outlined exactly what she and the Scottish Government could...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I direct the member to her motion, which mentions nothing positive about Scotland’s education system. However, there is a huge amount to be positive about in...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I appreciate the cabinet secretary being so generous and giving way again. Can she reflect on the fact that, for hundreds of schools across the country, the ...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I do not accept the point that the member makes. She has asked me several written questions on it; some of them pertain to private finance initiative schools...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I start on a positive note by thanking the Labour Party for sponsoring a debate on education. It is important that we have those; in January, the Scottish Co...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Did Miles Briggs take away from that conference the message that I took away from it—he has hinted that he did—which is that, without 100 per cent support fr...
Miles Briggs Con
I did. That is why I wanted to touch on the issue, on which our school leaders are asking for support. We must ensure that the Parliament and the Government ...
Lorna Slater (Lothian) (Green) Green
I am glad that the Labour Party has given us the opportunity to debate the situation in Scotland’s schools, although, frankly, I am depressed and disappointe...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Teachers and staff do some really good things in schools. They achieve an awful lot and transform young people’s lives, and we should recognise that. However...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate, with speeches of up to four minutes from back benchers. 16:35
Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I rise to raise in particular issues of spatial planning in schools. Glasgow is facing some significant challenges in that area. After many years of populati...
Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) SNP
I thank Sarah Boyack, who is sitting down the front, for lodging the motion. Never mind that Bob Doris was not even in the room! I say to Pam Duncan-Glancy t...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank the Presiding Officer and all colleagues for the support that they have shown to me during my recent period of leave. Being a dad is the best job in ...
Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I thank Labour for bringing the debate to the chamber on an afternoon that has focused on education and skills. I say at the outset that the issues in our ...
Martin Whitfield Lab
We are talking about restorative practice. Is it not right to say that that approach works only once a person has developed the skills of empathy and of unde...
Roz McCall Con
Yes—I could not agree more with that, at a certain level. However, the consequences have to be accepted not only by the pupil but by the parents, the teacher...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
The cabinet secretary opened her speech by talking about Scotland’s men’s football team and the hope that they have given us all with the great result that t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to closing speeches. 16:57
Lorna Slater Green
In my opening speech, I talked about the crushing workload challenges that teachers face as a result of the expansive and unnecessary bureaucracy that is bui...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
In my teacher training course, the only thing that really mattered was how I could get on in front of a class. Forget all the theory, the coloured pencils, t...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I welcome the MSPs and parties who have come forward with solutions during the debate. We have just been hearing from Liz Smith, a fellow former teacher, abo...
Liz Smith Con
I understand what the cabinet secretary is saying, but it is not all about money; it is about a cultural change that is required in our schools. As my collea...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I very much agree with Liz Smith’s points. In reflecting on our own teaching, we understand the importance of building trust with pupils and the class. That ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I am very much encouraged by the cabinet secretary’s points about data. Will she reflect on Lorna Slater’s point about co-ordinated support plans, which are ...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I hear Daniel Johnson’s point—Lorna Slater made a similar point. We have debated the issue at the Education, Children and Young People Committee. Co-ordinate...