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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 19 November 2025

19 Nov 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Skills System
Rowley, Alex Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

When I looked at the motion and the amendments for the debate, I could see in each a lot of positives on which we could agree. It would be great if political parties in this place were able to come together more. Daniel Johnson talked about a full and frank discussion, but we need to add honesty—about where we are, what needs to be done and how we move forward together in the interests of the people of Scotland.

A month or so ago, I was in Forth Valley College for a morning meeting, so I went for breakfast in its excellent cafe. I met a young man from Kirkcaldy, who told me that he was working for a firm in Fife, doing an apprenticeship. He was so excited to tell me about the college, his apprenticeship and how he was getting on. It is therefore important that we recognise that the colleges do not sit in isolation from the wider economy. There was devastating news yesterday about Mossmorran, where apprentices will need support on how to move forward. We need a joined-up approach to employment and the economy.

As Willie Rennie found when he went to Dundee and Angus College, I found Forth Valley College buzzing with people. In our debates, we should be careful not to talk down the success that is happening across Scotland’s colleges. The Colleges Scotland “Keyfacts 2025” report outlined that.

Many people have a good experience in our colleges, but we need to be honest. Audit Scotland pointed out that, during the current parliamentary session, colleges have had a 20 per cent real-terms cut to their funding. Colleges such as Fife College and Forth Valley College have made it clear that they cannot continue with the cuts that they are having to make to their budgets.

As part of that honest discussion, let us consider what needs to happen on funding. The motion and the amendments all talk about links with schools; we need to make that link much stronger. We need to recognise that some pupils who come through the school system and come out the other end without the basic skills that they need will not be successful in a college education.

Daniel Johnson talked about the work that a school in Liberton is doing with employers. A lot of excellent work is happening with employers. I could rattle off umpteen schools in Fife that are doing really good stuff, and employers have bought into that. However, there needs to be more of a strategic approach to that.

Schools are signing up for a project in Fife called the hub, which I have mentioned to the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills on a number of occasions. Pupils who are struggling in school—and, indeed, many pupils who do not want to go to school—go along to training workshops in Methil. Schools across Fife are using that. Many of the young people who I have talked to who have taken part have gone on to get an apprenticeship. Had they not had that opportunity, they would have come out of the school system with no opportunities. We also need to look at models of that kind. That hub is doing brilliant work, but it is struggling to get financial support. I have had meetings with Fife Council education officers to discuss how we can support that organisation. Schools are actively supporting it, and the outcomes are being demonstrated.

We need to be positive about what is going on, but recognise that there is a serious funding issue and that we need a more joined-up approach. I wish that members from all parties in the chamber would start to work together and put the people of Scotland first.

15:32  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-19756, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on Scotland’s skills system. I invite members who wish to participa...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Interruption. Apologies, Presiding Officer. There were some odd flashing lights on my console—hence my swift manoeuvre. I have a speech prepared, but I firs...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes) SNP
I am listening to the member with interest, and he will know that I believe that the scale of opportunity in Scotland is such that we need to have a skills p...
Daniel Johnson Lab
That intervention from the Deputy First Minister ignores the fact that the number of people who are economically inactive is higher in Scotland than in the U...
The Minister for Higher and Further Education (Ben Macpherson) SNP
Excuse me—I lost my voice slightly at Hampden last night, as I am sure much of the country did, across different parts of our society. What we witnessed last...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Does the minister not at least agree that the fact that 4,500 fewer people than the Government’s own targets are getting an apprenticeship means that young p...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I have stated before, as have colleagues, that we have an ambition to grow the number of modern apprenticeships, graduate apprenticeships and foundation appr...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I agree entirely with what the minister has just said. Nonetheless, I was at a conference at Edinburgh Napier University on Monday at which people were sayin...
Ben Macpherson SNP
That is a significant point that gets to the heart of the skills agenda that we are undertaking through a programme and a set of primary legislative changes....
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
The minister is concluding.
Ben Macpherson SNP
This year, we also have a record number of more than 110,000 vocational and technical qualification awards. There is more to do. That is why the primary leg...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I remind members who wish to participate in the debate but have not already pressed their request-to-speak buttons to please do so now. 15:15
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
When I saw that it was to be Labour business today, I thought that Daniel Johnson might have chosen to debate next week’s tax rises by the Chancellor of the ...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I challenge Mr Fraser and colleagues on that. The current system is working very well for many people, including many employers and many learners. Is it nece...
Murdo Fraser Con
I say to Mr Macpherson that he should go back and review the evidence to which I referred, because it gives a somewhat different picture. Part of my concern...
Kate Forbes SNP
Will the member give way?
Murdo Fraser Con
I think that I am in my last minute.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You are.
Murdo Fraser Con
I apologise to the Deputy First Minister. Whereas employers in England can directly access those funds, that is not the case in Scotland. The latest data sh...
Lorna Slater (Lothian) (Green) Green
The Economy and Fair Work Committee has heard over and over again about the advantages of workplace learning, not only for traditional vocational careers but...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude.
Lorna Slater Green
Not only are most apprentices men, but women apprentices are consigned to lower-paying sectors and lower-paying jobs. It is worth prioritising and correcting...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
The good news is that there is huge demand for apprenticeships. It is fantastic that so many people are willing to learn and that we have excellent people wh...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 15:28
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
When I looked at the motion and the amendments for the debate, I could see in each a lot of positives on which we could agree. It would be great if political...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) SNP
I thank Daniel Johnson for the debate. It is enormously important that we discuss this issue in the chamber, to ensure that not only our young people, but th...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
MSPs have described how they feel that Scotland’s skills system is failing too many young people and is holding back our economic growth. There is a need for...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
As always, I am delighted to speak in support of our education and skills sector. It is great to see Labour at long last accepting what I and my colleagues o...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
It is a great pleasure to speak about the vital work that is under way across our education and skills system, which is helping people of all ages to reach t...