Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
13
Parties on record
2,355,091
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,355,091 contributions in session S6, 16 Apr 2026 – 16 May 2026. Latest 30 days: 148. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 14 May 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 19 November 2025

19 Nov 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Skills System

The good news is that there is huge demand for apprenticeships. It is fantastic that so many people are willing to learn and that we have excellent people who are prepared to impart their knowledge in our colleges and workplaces. There are also employers who are desperate to take new people—particularly young people—into their workforces.

The bad news is that, as we know, the system is disjointed. It has been criticised repeatedly by Audit Scotland and in the Withers report. My disappointment is that all the knowledge that James Withers shared is now being narrowed down into a structural discussion about whether SDS should have some of its powers removed and transferred to the Scottish Funding Council. We are not debating any of the other issues that we should be debating. I deeply regret that, because employers are divided and there is concern in the sector that we are not addressing those fundamental problems.

When I visited the excellent Dundee and Angus College yesterday, I heard stories from young people there about their lives being transformed. People who had not spoken for years had been lifted out of that state and are now on the verge of employment. Some really good people are being trained, and the opportunity for work is therefore increased. That shows the diversity in the sector.

I then went downstairs to see the plumbers, who told me that, because of the minimum wage, employer national insurance contributions and the state of wider business confidence, employer demand for apprenticeships in that sector has fallen. There is therefore potential for youth unemployment—particularly in Dundee, in this case—as a result of failed employer demand. However, the college is unable to take on those young people to do higher national certificates or other qualifications, because its funding has been cut. The system is unable to flex based on the confidence in the sector.

I think that the minister, with his bill, is trying to get a whole-system approach, but the reality is that the whole system is the economy. It is not just about apprenticeships and universities and colleges—it is about everything. For example, yesterday’s announcement of the delay to the heat in buildings bill will further knock confidence in the companies that are looking to employ plumbers. That has an impact on confidence so that we cannot transform the heating systems in buildings. What we need in our skills set-up is for the funds to follow the learner, but they also need to follow employers’ needs now and in the future. That is a complex set of conditions, but instead of having discussions about that, we are back to a discussion about structures.

The thing that concerns me most is that we are not getting to grips with our 16 to 64-year-old working-age population. The economic inactivity in that group is one of the highest in the United Kingdom. It bounces between one in four and one in five. We need those people to work in order to pay the taxes to fund our public services. However, the economy—that whole system—is broken. That is what I believe. It is not just about the narrow apprenticeship system; the fact is that we are not focusing on the whole economy, the skills within it and economic inactivity. My plea is for us to have a wider debate about all those things so that we can get the economy moving, rather than having narrow debates about structures.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-19756, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on Scotland’s skills system. I invite members who wish to participa...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Interruption. Apologies, Presiding Officer. There were some odd flashing lights on my console—hence my swift manoeuvre. I have a speech prepared, but I firs...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes) SNP
I am listening to the member with interest, and he will know that I believe that the scale of opportunity in Scotland is such that we need to have a skills p...
Daniel Johnson Lab
That intervention from the Deputy First Minister ignores the fact that the number of people who are economically inactive is higher in Scotland than in the U...
The Minister for Higher and Further Education (Ben Macpherson) SNP
Excuse me—I lost my voice slightly at Hampden last night, as I am sure much of the country did, across different parts of our society. What we witnessed last...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Does the minister not at least agree that the fact that 4,500 fewer people than the Government’s own targets are getting an apprenticeship means that young p...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I have stated before, as have colleagues, that we have an ambition to grow the number of modern apprenticeships, graduate apprenticeships and foundation appr...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I agree entirely with what the minister has just said. Nonetheless, I was at a conference at Edinburgh Napier University on Monday at which people were sayin...
Ben Macpherson SNP
That is a significant point that gets to the heart of the skills agenda that we are undertaking through a programme and a set of primary legislative changes....
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
The minister is concluding.
Ben Macpherson SNP
This year, we also have a record number of more than 110,000 vocational and technical qualification awards. There is more to do. That is why the primary leg...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I remind members who wish to participate in the debate but have not already pressed their request-to-speak buttons to please do so now. 15:15
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
When I saw that it was to be Labour business today, I thought that Daniel Johnson might have chosen to debate next week’s tax rises by the Chancellor of the ...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I challenge Mr Fraser and colleagues on that. The current system is working very well for many people, including many employers and many learners. Is it nece...
Murdo Fraser Con
I say to Mr Macpherson that he should go back and review the evidence to which I referred, because it gives a somewhat different picture. Part of my concern...
Kate Forbes SNP
Will the member give way?
Murdo Fraser Con
I think that I am in my last minute.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You are.
Murdo Fraser Con
I apologise to the Deputy First Minister. Whereas employers in England can directly access those funds, that is not the case in Scotland. The latest data sh...
Lorna Slater (Lothian) (Green) Green
The Economy and Fair Work Committee has heard over and over again about the advantages of workplace learning, not only for traditional vocational careers but...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude.
Lorna Slater Green
Not only are most apprentices men, but women apprentices are consigned to lower-paying sectors and lower-paying jobs. It is worth prioritising and correcting...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
The good news is that there is huge demand for apprenticeships. It is fantastic that so many people are willing to learn and that we have excellent people wh...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 15:28
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
When I looked at the motion and the amendments for the debate, I could see in each a lot of positives on which we could agree. It would be great if political...
Jamie Hepburn (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) SNP
I thank Daniel Johnson for the debate. It is enormously important that we discuss this issue in the chamber, to ensure that not only our young people, but th...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
MSPs have described how they feel that Scotland’s skills system is failing too many young people and is holding back our economic growth. There is a need for...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
As always, I am delighted to speak in support of our education and skills sector. It is great to see Labour at long last accepting what I and my colleagues o...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
It is a great pleasure to speak about the vital work that is under way across our education and skills system, which is helping people of all ages to reach t...