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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 17 September 2025

17 Sep 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill
Ross, Douglas Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests, which notes that my wife is a sergeant with Police Scotland.

The cabinet secretary knows that she has the numbers. She has worked hard with some parties to get the bill over the line. On Monday or Tuesday this week, we knew that the Greens would support it, before we discussed the 160 amendments that Jamie Greene referred to.

The bill will be passed but, having sat through yesterday’s stage 3 amendments and looked at the work of the Criminal Justice Committee, I cannot help but feel that it is a missed opportunity. There was an opportunity for the cabinet secretary to have not just a majority in favour but a unanimous decision of the Parliament to support a bill that really made a difference for victims and witnesses.

We all want an improvement for anyone who goes through the horrific and horrendous experience of being a victim of crime, and the bill concerns some of the most serious crimes that we could ever imagine. We all want to make it better for people to be involved in the justice system—to be a witness and give evidence. Some of the most harrowing cases that I have ever had to deal with as a constituency representative have involved those who went into the legal system as a victim or a witness and came out of it almost more traumatised by that experience than by the crime itself.

With the bill, there was an opportunity to make a difference that all of us could get behind and support. I gently say to Jamie Greene that he cannot shame Opposition members—I do not think that he was absolutely doing this—for opposing the bill when there are good elements in it. There are undoubtedly elements in the bill that I support. I know that there are families in the chamber who would like all MSPs to back it because of the individual elements that they have rightly and fiercely campaigned on for so long, but that does not mean that we can ignore the elements that I believe could have been improved if the justice secretary had gone a bit further yesterday in the stage 3 amendments or at stage 2.

As Liam Kerr said, the Conservatives have made the bill better with the amendments from Russell Findlay, Sharon Dowey and Pam Gosal. However, I still cannot understand or get my head around the fact that the opportunity was not taken in the bill to launch a national inquiry into grooming gangs. We see that issue all over the news and all over the media. The Labour Government at Westminster originally tried to do the same thing and tried to refuse such an inquiry, but it eventually had to U-turn because of public pressure. I am pretty sure that in a number of weeks, months or perhaps years—sadly, if it gets to years, it will be far too late—an incumbent Scottish Government will have to do the same thing, so why not take the opportunity under the bill?

On amendment 112, which I spoke to yesterday, I understand that there are disagreements on sexual offences courts. Some members believe that that is the right approach, and some believe that it is the wrong approach. I have to say that the cabinet secretary’s response to the alternative proposals that were put to her was dismissive. She believes that her option is the only option but, as Pauline McNeill said yesterday, that is not the case.

The proposal will cost a lot of money. That money could be better spent on changes in the current justice system. I understand that Lady Dorrian does not agree with specialised units or divisions in the High Court, but she also does not agree with the approach that the Government has taken forward on the sexual offences court. I believe that that is another missed opportunity.

I would genuinely have been pleased to be able to vote for the bill at decision time, but I cannot, and it is with a heavy heart that I cannot, because it could have been so much better and done so much more for victims and witnesses across Scotland. Sadly, I believe that it is a missed opportunity.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-18883, in the name of Angela Constance, on the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill at ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
The core of the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill is about supporting victims. I begin by recognising everyone who has been impacted by ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The bill has had a tortuous passage. The cabinet secretary said that it has been a marathon, not a sprint, and that is certainly true. It was originally goin...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
This is the most difficult bill that I have dealt with in my time on the Criminal Justice Committee. It deals, in its entirety, with wholesale reform of the ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I remind colleagues of my entry in the register of members’ interests: I used to work for a rape crisis centre. We are here today to debate legislation that...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (LD) LD
I am often asked, when schools come to visit, “What is the best part of being an MSP? Is it helping constituents? Is it meeting inspiring people? Is it chang...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 15:54
Audrey Nicoll (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
It is safe to say that the passage of the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill has been long, complex and challenging—and rightly so, given...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests, which notes that my wife is a sergeant with Police Scotland. The cabinet secretary knows...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Christine Grahame, who is the final speaker in the open debate. 16:02
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate all who are engaged in the bill, but I also consider that to allocate just over one hour to debate these radical changes to the delivery and p...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to closing speeches. 16:04
Maggie Chapman Green
Presiding Officer, “We are treated like outsiders throughout the whole process.” “I was told by a police detective that I wasn’t raped—it was consensual....
Christine Grahame SNP
Thank you for taking an intervention; I know that your time is constricted. Is there a place in our education system—in schools—for education on the general ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Always speak through the chair.
Maggie Chapman Green
Absolutely—education for all of us about the legal system and our criminal justice system is imperative. After we pass the bill today, our third sector part...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am pleased to close the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour. We remain concerned that the bill might have unintended consequences and disappoint victims. ...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
The member’s party and the Conservative Party are not voting for the bill. Do you not think that, by not voting for it, you are letting down victims and witn...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Always speak through the chair.
Katy Clark Lab
The whole of my speech addresses the point that Rona Mackay is making. There are many proposals in the bill that we agree with. Indeed, many of them do not ...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I acknowledge that the bill contains some improvements, and I welcome the fact that the Government backed my amendments to toughen up non-harassment orders a...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs (Angela Constance) SNP
I do not want to pollute the debate with partisan comments because, at the end of the day, victims will judge for themselves whether they see through any con...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Angela Constance SNP
Not just now. The bill will introduce radical improvements to how sexual offences are dealt with through the creation of a new sexual offences court, which ...
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
That concludes the debate on the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill at stage 3.