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Committee

Education, Children and Young People Committee 10 September 2025

10 Sep 2025 · S6 · Education, Children and Young People Committee
Item of business
Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Katy Nisbet Watch on SPTV

We have a considerable concern about the aftercare provisions as drafted, although we appreciate and are supportive of the attempt to extend aftercare to a broader group of children. Primarily, if any 16 or 17-year-old child is without a home or cannot live in a family environment for whatever reason, they should be in a care placement and should be fully supported on a relational basis in that setting. I appreciate that there are some situations in which that is not appropriate for or desired by the child. We should also remember at the outset that aftercare is a safety net, and, particularly for 16 and 17-year-olds, that should not be the primary focus.

The bill seeks to extend the reach of aftercare beyond those looked-after children who left care before their 16th birthday, which is the current limit. The access that is being mooted in the bill is to discretionary aftercare, which is quite significant.

I appreciate that we are short on time, but I will take you through a case example of how that might work and what the effect of those changes would be, as opposed to extending the mandatory cover. Let us say that there is a 15 or 15-and-a-half-year-old who has been taken off their CSO. They attempt to reconcile with their family and live at home, but that does not work and, at the age of 16 or 17, they are not able to live in the family home. What happens then? Presently, they would have no right to aftercare at all. That child, if they did not want to be in the care system, would simply go into the adult homelessness system and be placed in adult temporary accommodation. The needs assessment for the suitability of that accommodation is very different from that of a placement under aftercare or from support that is provided through aftercare.

However, if the child was on a CSO when they were 16, and then reconciled with their family but it did not work out, they would be entitled to aftercare. The aftercare is mandatory at that point, and means that the local authority must carry out a pathways assessment. In doing so, it must consider all the needs of that child—that is, not just their accommodation needs but their health, mental health, educational and employment needs. After the assessment is carried out, an aftercare worker should be supporting them to make that transition and ensuring that they are in accommodation that is suitable for those needs. They are then supported through that process. They are also entitled to financial help through the children and families social work provision. That assistance is covered in section 30 of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995, and changes to that section are proposed through the bill.

What is being proposed now is that someone who is 15 and a half and is not on a CSO any more who goes home but that reconciliation does not work is then out. It is not mandatory for the local authority to conduct a pathways assessment. The young person can request that that assessment is carried out, but, for a start, they would need to know that that is something that they can do and that that support is available to them. I would query how, given the very inconsistent implementation of the current aftercare system, that would come about. That needs to be given a lot of thought.

A needs assessment will take place if one is requested, but the needs that are being assessed in that situation are eligible needs, which, according to, section 29(2) of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 are needs that cannot be met through other means, effectively. Irrespective of how it is supposed to work, what we see in practice is that we request the pathways assessment for a child, that assessment happens and they are allocated a pathways worker. That is all positive and better than what is currently supposed to happen. However, in general, the needs in relation to accommodation, for instance, can be met through the homelessness system. That means that the aftercare worker will support the child to make an application to the homelessness system and they are then in the adult homelessness system. They are in adult homelessness temporary accommodation and the needs that are being considered there are not the broad range of needs that would be considered under the aftercare system.

We support the extension of aftercare, but, for the changes to be effective, all 16 and 17-year-olds need access to the mandatory aftercare regime. That is where we have difficulty with the bill.

In the same item of business

The Convener Con
Welcome back. The next item of business is evidence, over two panels, on the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill. I welcom...
Sheriff David Mackie (Hearings System Working Group)
Good morning. There are positive aspects to the bill and elements that are very welcome, such as the discretion that the bill proposes to give to reporters t...
The Convener Con
I am particularly interested in proposed new section 90. You have looked at legislation from the Parliament before. Have you seen that approach in the past, ...
Sheriff Mackie
Absolutely. In a year in which we have incorporated the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child into domestic law, the legislation should have t...
The Convener Con
Could that have been resolved if there had been better discussion and deliberation beforehand? You suggest that there was insufficient consultation prior the...
Sheriff Mackie
It might have been resolved. It is a pity that there was not more engagement.
The Convener Con
Why do you think that there was not?
Sheriff Mackie
I do not know. In recent days and weeks, there has been a markedly increased level of engagement, which I welcome. Some elements might have benefited from di...
The Convener Con
You said there has been a marked increase in engagement in recent days and weeks. Is that from Scottish Government ministers or officials? 09:45
Sheriff Mackie
Both, in the run-up to this committee meeting.
The Convener Con
Your report made a number of recommendations. As you say, some have filtered through, but the majority have not. How do you feel about the work that went int...
Sheriff Mackie
At the heart of our work in the working group and in considering the bill was listening to the voices of young care-experienced people. We really did listen ...
The Convener Con
Thank you very much—that is extremely helpful. Ms Duncan and Mr McKinlay, I understand that there are positives, and please feel free to speak about those ...
Fiona Duncan (The Promise Scotland)
We have a record of all the engagement that we have had on the bill, the conversations that we have had and the information that we have provided. Our experi...
The Convener Con
I will bring Mr McKinlay in, but your evidence is that the bill will add to the complexity, which is not particularly reassuring in relation to passing the t...
Fiona Duncan
When the care review concluded, we had identified 44 pieces of primary legislation, 19 pieces of secondary legislation and three international conventions th...
Fraser McKinlay (The Promise Scotland)
I will add a couple of comments in relation to your questions, convener, around engagement and what the review might have envisioned back in 2020. Engagemen...
The Convener Con
We want to get into a lot of those areas. We will move to questions from committee members.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Good morning. I thank the witnesses for the evidence that they submitted in advance of the meeting and the questions that they have answered so far. I will a...
Fraser McKinlay
I think that it will address some of them. It is striking that many responses from the organisations that work alongside care-experienced children, young peo...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Let us move on from that discussion. Fiona Duncan, you mentioned that we will need another bill to get us to 2030. Is there a reason why everything could not...
Fiona Duncan
Yes, there is a fair reason why it could not all have been done in one bill. With a 10-year change programme, you bump into things that get in the way as you...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Do you think that there are potentially opportunities to amend the current bill to do some of that?
Fiona Duncan
I am really determined to make the bill the best that we can get it and to ensure that it passes. Some amendments are necessary in order for that to happen.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Similar to the conversations that we have had, a number of organisations have said in their submissions that the aftercare provisions could go further. Other...
Fiona Duncan
Both of those things are true: the provisions could go further and there are concerns about the estimated costs. I should say that I hate the expression “aft...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
That is helpful.
Fraser McKinlay
There is no doubt that the provisions in the bill as they stand go some way towards addressing one of the big issues that the care review identified, which i...
Sheriff Mackie
I defer to Fiona Duncan and Fraser McKinlay on the wider issue around aftercare. I share Fiona’s dislike of that expression, but it is what we are using. I ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Thank you. I appreciate that. I had not considered that in any great detail, so it is helpful for the committee’s consideration. Do the panel members have a...