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Committee

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee 04 November 2025

04 Nov 2025 · S6 · Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Item of business
Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Good morning, convener. I thank all members who have lodged amendments to the bill at stage 2. The breadth of the amendments will allow most of the substantive issues that the committee wrestled with at stage 1 to be debated at stage 2, which is the purpose of the process.

I thank Jeremy Balfour and Daniel Johnson for setting out the rationale for their amendments and I agree with much of what they have said. In other jurisdictions, we see that people are accessing the choice that the bill would enable at the end of their life, but I understand why we are having the debate.

Before I touch on the amendments that have been spoken to, I will first address my amendments. My amendment 24 clarifies that,

“For the avoidance of any doubt, a person is not”

to be considered as meeting the definition of terminal illness as set out in section 2

“only because they have a disability or a mental disorder (or both).”

That does not, however, prevent a person from meeting the requirements as set out in section 2 from being regarded as a terminally ill person.

Amendment 26 is consequential and tidies up drafting.

I noted the concerns that were raised at stage 1 about the potential risk of a person with a disability or a mental disorder being assessed as meeting the definition of terminal illness as set out in section 2. I am clear that the bill, supported by its accompanying documents, does not permit a person to be assessed as being terminally ill for the purposes of the bill only because they have a disability, a mental disorder or both.

However, in order to provide further reassurance of policy intent and on the meaning of section 2, and to further inform any future guidance on and the practical operation of the act, I have lodged amendment 24. It is not a change of policy but it will remove any doubt. I remain of the view that, if it is their wish, a person must not be prevented from requesting assistance to end their own life because of a disability or a mental disorder, if they meet the requirements as set out in the bill and are assessed as being eligible.

Jackie Baillie’s amendment 73 relates to the amendments that I have lodged in this grouping. Amendment 73 and consequential amendment 84 duplicate the part of my amendment 24 that relates to mental disorder but do not include the part about disability. I am therefore supportive of the principle of Jackie Baillie’s amendments, but I ask her not to move them, and I ask that the committee supports amendment 24, given its application to mental disorder and disability.

09:15  

I turn to Jeremy Balfour’s amendment 143, which, as the convener said, pre-empts amendments 144 and 4. The first two parts of the amendment, which relate to the diagnosis of an

“irreversible and actively progressive disease, illness or condition”

for which

“no treatment is available that could reasonably be expected to prevent death or lead to recovery”,

are already provided for in section 2. On the proposal that terminal illness should be defined as a person being considered to have three months or less to live, as the committee heard during stage 1, there are risks in including a timeframe for a prognosis of death.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Clare Haughey) SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the 29th meeting in 2025 of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. I have received apologies from Paul Sweeney, and Jackie...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 143, in the name of Jeremy Balfour, is grouped with amendments 4, 144, 24, 73, 26 and 84.
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Ind) Ind
Good morning, convener, members of the committee and other members. Thank you for having us at the meeting to discuss some very important amendments. I will ...
The Convener SNP
I point out to the committee that, due to pre-emption, if amendment 143 is agreed to, I cannot call amendments 4 and 144, and, if amendment 26 is agreed to, ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
At the outset, I state that I broadly agree with much of what Jeremy Balfour has set out. To my mind, the debate has been marked by two substantial features ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Good morning, convener. I thank all members who have lodged amendments to the bill at stage 2. The breadth of the amendments will allow most of the substanti...
Jeremy Balfour Ind
To some extent, amendment 143 is a probing amendment. Does the member recognise that, in the social security legislation that the Parliament passed in the pr...
Liam McArthur LD
I thank Jeremy Balfour for that, and for clarification that amendment 143 is more of a probing amendment. As I say, it is important that we have this discuss...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the member accept my point that, in principle, rather than necessarily establishing an accurate prognosis, setting a time limit is about trying to set a...
Liam McArthur LD
As I say, other jurisdictions operate using prognostic periods and issues appear to be manageable within that context. Nevertheless, the argument is about es...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am listening carefully to the points that are being made. The point in amendment 24 about a person not being terminally ill only because they are disabled ...
Liam McArthur LD
I do not happen to agree with that. As I go through and respond to the amendments, the rationale for that might become clearer. Amendments 143 and 144 offe...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam McArthur LD
I am going to make a little more progress, Ms Duncan-Glancy. Adding terms such as “substantially slowed down” is likely only to add to confusion. Although...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Amendments 73 and 84—amendment 84 is consequential—are to make it clear that a person is not considered terminally ill solely because they have a mental diso...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I declare an interest as a practising national health service general practitioner and chair of the medical advisory group on the bill. I would like to sa...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I understand Sandesh Gulhane’s background in the area, so I know that he will be aware of all the significant research that shows that non-disabled people’s ...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
Pam Duncan-Glancy has the opportunity to lodge an amendment that says that people with disabilities cannot access assisted dying. I would not support such an...
Jeremy Balfour Ind
I am interested to explore that a wee bit, because the member is saying that someone could say, “My life is no longer meaningful because I have been diagnose...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
I start by saying that this is not assisted suicide. This is assisted dying, as the bill puts it, but Mr Balfour has called it assisted suicide multiple time...
Liam McArthur LD
I think that Sandesh Gulhane is right to point to the importance of autonomy, but does he also agree that the safeguards in the bill would require discussion...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
I agree with that—I would go as far as saying that that was literally the next thing that I was going to say. I absolutely agree with everything that has jus...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
First, I have a brief comment on Liam McArthur and Jackie Baillie’s amendments. I agree with Liam McArthur that the meaning that is captured in the amendment...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I understand the member’s point—you do not lodge an amendment that proposes a time boundary without thinking about such things. On the other hand, the princi...
Patrick Harvie Green
The most important thing that we should bear in mind is that that is how people are overwhelmingly likely to use the right to seek assistance. The idea that ...
Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) SNP
From the outset, my position is that I support Liam McArthur’s amendment 24, because it will allow us to put in place some more safeguards around the definit...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I recognise the member’s commitment to and support for the bill. If there was no time limit, what would be the difference between a person living as a disabl...
Elena Whitham SNP
We have heard from Liam McArthur about the differences. I agree that people who are terminally ill will, by definition, probably be considered to be disabled...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
Elena Whitham said that she is not minded to support a six-month prognosis at this stage but indicated that, as the debate goes on, she could be persuaded ot...
The Convener SNP
I call Jeremy Balfour to wind up. I remind members that, if amendment 143 is agreed to, I cannot call amendments 4 and 144, due to pre-emption.