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Committee

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee 04 November 2025

04 Nov 2025 · S6 · Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Item of business
Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Good morning, convener, members of the committee and other members. Thank you for having us at the meeting to discuss some very important amendments. I will speak to amendments 143 and 144.

First, with regard to amendment 143, as the bill stands, the definition of “terminally ill” is extraordinarily broad. It would include individuals who could live not for weeks or months but for years. People who are managing long-term conditions, those who are receiving treatment that stabilises their illness, and people who still have meaningful time ahead of them would all fall within the scope of the bill as it is currently drafted. I do not think that that is what members of the Parliament or, indeed, more importantly, members of the public would imagine when they hear the phrase “assisted dying”. They would think of someone who is in the final stages of their life or who is perhaps days or weeks from death, not someone who still has years to live but is facing difficulty, fear or despair.

If the law is to mean anything, the definition must be clear as the bill proceeds and if it ultimately becomes an act; otherwise, future generations risk the reach of assisted suicide expanding far beyond what advocates publicly claim to intend, and what the member in charge has publicly stated.

This amendment seeks to restore that clarity. It would define “terminally ill” as a condition that,

“in the opinion of two independent registered medical practitioners ... can reasonably be expected to result in the person’s death within three months.”

That is not a technical tightening; it is a moral safeguard. It ensures that, if the Parliament chooses to go down this path, it does so honestly, with the legislation restricted to those who are truly at the end of life and not those who yet have years of life, love and care ahead of them. By supporting the amendment, members will protect the integrity of the bill’s purpose, and they will protect vulnerable people from a profound expansion of what assisted suicide could mean in Scotland. If we cannot agree on that limit—if we cannot even confine assisted suicide to those who are imminently dying—we must ask ourselves what kind of law we are truly making.

With regard to amendment 144, there is, as I said, an alarmingly broad definition in the bill. I have written to the Presiding Officer and to you, convener, about legal issues around that, and I await responses from both of you. However, as the bill is written at the moment, the door to assisted suicide is open for people who have many years—decades—of life ahead of them. As I said, that is not what people think of when they hear the phrase “assisted suicide”. They think of someone who is in the final stages of terminal illness, not someone who is living with mental illness, disability or poverty. Yet, as written, the bill risks crossing that line. It risks sending a message that assisted suicide could be open to someone like me, who is struggling with disability. It opens it to those who are struggling with disadvantage or despair. That is a profound moral error and a betrayal of the very people who need our care and solidarity.

My amendment seeks to put that right. It makes it clear that a person cannot be deemed eligible for assisted suicide if their primary reason for seeking it is a non-terminal condition, such as an eating disorder, an intellectual disability, a mood or anxiety disorder, receipt of disability benefits, loneliness, financial hardship or unsuitable housing. At the same time, the amendment recognises that people may live with those conditions alongside a genuine terminal illness. It therefore would not automatically exclude people with non-terminal conditions from being eligible; it would require only that the driving cause of a request is truly a terminal condition. We heard at stage 1 from members across the chamber that that is what they were seeking to do. The amendment is not about narrowing choice but about protecting meaning and, perhaps most importantly, protecting the most vulnerable in our society.

The amendment would ensure that assisted suicide is not even inadvertently offered as a substitute for care, community or hope. If the state begins to respond to suffering not with support but with death, we will cross the line of the compassionate society that we all want to be part of. I believe that we should not cross that line. This amendment asks us to hold that line with clarity, conscience and compassion.

I move amendment 143.

In the same item of business

The Convener (Clare Haughey) SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the 29th meeting in 2025 of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. I have received apologies from Paul Sweeney, and Jackie...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 143, in the name of Jeremy Balfour, is grouped with amendments 4, 144, 24, 73, 26 and 84.
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Ind) Ind
Good morning, convener, members of the committee and other members. Thank you for having us at the meeting to discuss some very important amendments. I will ...
The Convener SNP
I point out to the committee that, due to pre-emption, if amendment 143 is agreed to, I cannot call amendments 4 and 144, and, if amendment 26 is agreed to, ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
At the outset, I state that I broadly agree with much of what Jeremy Balfour has set out. To my mind, the debate has been marked by two substantial features ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Good morning, convener. I thank all members who have lodged amendments to the bill at stage 2. The breadth of the amendments will allow most of the substanti...
Jeremy Balfour Ind
To some extent, amendment 143 is a probing amendment. Does the member recognise that, in the social security legislation that the Parliament passed in the pr...
Liam McArthur LD
I thank Jeremy Balfour for that, and for clarification that amendment 143 is more of a probing amendment. As I say, it is important that we have this discuss...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the member accept my point that, in principle, rather than necessarily establishing an accurate prognosis, setting a time limit is about trying to set a...
Liam McArthur LD
As I say, other jurisdictions operate using prognostic periods and issues appear to be manageable within that context. Nevertheless, the argument is about es...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am listening carefully to the points that are being made. The point in amendment 24 about a person not being terminally ill only because they are disabled ...
Liam McArthur LD
I do not happen to agree with that. As I go through and respond to the amendments, the rationale for that might become clearer. Amendments 143 and 144 offe...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam McArthur LD
I am going to make a little more progress, Ms Duncan-Glancy. Adding terms such as “substantially slowed down” is likely only to add to confusion. Although...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Amendments 73 and 84—amendment 84 is consequential—are to make it clear that a person is not considered terminally ill solely because they have a mental diso...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I declare an interest as a practising national health service general practitioner and chair of the medical advisory group on the bill. I would like to sa...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I understand Sandesh Gulhane’s background in the area, so I know that he will be aware of all the significant research that shows that non-disabled people’s ...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
Pam Duncan-Glancy has the opportunity to lodge an amendment that says that people with disabilities cannot access assisted dying. I would not support such an...
Jeremy Balfour Ind
I am interested to explore that a wee bit, because the member is saying that someone could say, “My life is no longer meaningful because I have been diagnose...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
I start by saying that this is not assisted suicide. This is assisted dying, as the bill puts it, but Mr Balfour has called it assisted suicide multiple time...
Liam McArthur LD
I think that Sandesh Gulhane is right to point to the importance of autonomy, but does he also agree that the safeguards in the bill would require discussion...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
I agree with that—I would go as far as saying that that was literally the next thing that I was going to say. I absolutely agree with everything that has jus...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
First, I have a brief comment on Liam McArthur and Jackie Baillie’s amendments. I agree with Liam McArthur that the meaning that is captured in the amendment...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I understand the member’s point—you do not lodge an amendment that proposes a time boundary without thinking about such things. On the other hand, the princi...
Patrick Harvie Green
The most important thing that we should bear in mind is that that is how people are overwhelmingly likely to use the right to seek assistance. The idea that ...
Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) SNP
From the outset, my position is that I support Liam McArthur’s amendment 24, because it will allow us to put in place some more safeguards around the definit...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I recognise the member’s commitment to and support for the bill. If there was no time limit, what would be the difference between a person living as a disabl...
Elena Whitham SNP
We have heard from Liam McArthur about the differences. I agree that people who are terminally ill will, by definition, probably be considered to be disabled...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
Elena Whitham said that she is not minded to support a six-month prognosis at this stage but indicated that, as the debate goes on, she could be persuaded ot...
The Convener SNP
I call Jeremy Balfour to wind up. I remind members that, if amendment 143 is agreed to, I cannot call amendments 4 and 144, due to pre-emption.