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Committee

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee 04 November 2025

04 Nov 2025 · S6 · Health, Social Care and Sport Committee
Item of business
Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Good morning, and welcome to the 29th meeting in 2025 of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. I have received apologies from Paul Sweeney, and Jackie Baillie joins us as a substitute.

Our first and only agenda item is consideration of the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill at stage 2. As convener, I do not intend for us to go beyond the debate on amendment 226 today, which is the debate on the group on vulnerable adults.

I will briefly explain the procedure that we will be following during the proceedings for anyone who is watching the meeting. Members should have a copy of the bill, the marshalled list and the groupings. Those documents are available on the bill’s web page on the Scottish Parliament’s website. I will call each amendment individually in the order that is on the marshalled list. The member who lodged the amendment should either move it or say “not moved” when it is called. If the member does not move it, any other member present may do so. The groupings document sets out the amendments in the order in which they will be debated.

There will be one debate on each group of amendments. In each debate, I will call the member who lodged the first amendment in the group to move and speak to that amendment and to speak to all the other amendments in the group. I will call other members with amendments in the group to speak to, but not move, their amendments, and to speak to other amendments in the group if they wish. I will then call any other members who wish to speak in the debate. Members who wish to speak should indicate that by catching my or the clerk’s attention. I will then call the member in charge of the bill, if he has not already spoken in the debate.

Finally, I will call the member who moved the first amendment in the group to wind up and to either press the amendment or seek to withdraw it. If the amendment is pressed, I will put the question on it. If a member seeks to withdraw an amendment after it has been moved and debated, I will ask whether any member present objects. If there is an objection, I will immediately put the question on the amendment. Later amendments in the group will not be debated again. If they are moved, I will put the question on them straight away.

If there is a division, only committee members are entitled to vote. Voting is done by a show of hands. It is important that members keep their hands raised clearly until the clerk has recorded their names. If there is a tie, I must exercise a casting vote. The committee is also required to consider and decide on each section and schedule of the bill and the long title. I will put the question on each of those provisions at the appropriate point.

Section 1 agreed to.

Section 2—Terminal illness

In the same item of business

The Convener (Clare Haughey) SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the 29th meeting in 2025 of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. I have received apologies from Paul Sweeney, and Jackie...
The Convener SNP
Amendment 143, in the name of Jeremy Balfour, is grouped with amendments 4, 144, 24, 73, 26 and 84.
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Ind) Ind
Good morning, convener, members of the committee and other members. Thank you for having us at the meeting to discuss some very important amendments. I will ...
The Convener SNP
I point out to the committee that, due to pre-emption, if amendment 143 is agreed to, I cannot call amendments 4 and 144, and, if amendment 26 is agreed to, ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
At the outset, I state that I broadly agree with much of what Jeremy Balfour has set out. To my mind, the debate has been marked by two substantial features ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Good morning, convener. I thank all members who have lodged amendments to the bill at stage 2. The breadth of the amendments will allow most of the substanti...
Jeremy Balfour Ind
To some extent, amendment 143 is a probing amendment. Does the member recognise that, in the social security legislation that the Parliament passed in the pr...
Liam McArthur LD
I thank Jeremy Balfour for that, and for clarification that amendment 143 is more of a probing amendment. As I say, it is important that we have this discuss...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the member accept my point that, in principle, rather than necessarily establishing an accurate prognosis, setting a time limit is about trying to set a...
Liam McArthur LD
As I say, other jurisdictions operate using prognostic periods and issues appear to be manageable within that context. Nevertheless, the argument is about es...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I am listening carefully to the points that are being made. The point in amendment 24 about a person not being terminally ill only because they are disabled ...
Liam McArthur LD
I do not happen to agree with that. As I go through and respond to the amendments, the rationale for that might become clearer. Amendments 143 and 144 offe...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam McArthur LD
I am going to make a little more progress, Ms Duncan-Glancy. Adding terms such as “substantially slowed down” is likely only to add to confusion. Although...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Amendments 73 and 84—amendment 84 is consequential—are to make it clear that a person is not considered terminally ill solely because they have a mental diso...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I declare an interest as a practising national health service general practitioner and chair of the medical advisory group on the bill. I would like to sa...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I understand Sandesh Gulhane’s background in the area, so I know that he will be aware of all the significant research that shows that non-disabled people’s ...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
Pam Duncan-Glancy has the opportunity to lodge an amendment that says that people with disabilities cannot access assisted dying. I would not support such an...
Jeremy Balfour Ind
I am interested to explore that a wee bit, because the member is saying that someone could say, “My life is no longer meaningful because I have been diagnose...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
I start by saying that this is not assisted suicide. This is assisted dying, as the bill puts it, but Mr Balfour has called it assisted suicide multiple time...
Liam McArthur LD
I think that Sandesh Gulhane is right to point to the importance of autonomy, but does he also agree that the safeguards in the bill would require discussion...
Sandesh Gulhane Con
I agree with that—I would go as far as saying that that was literally the next thing that I was going to say. I absolutely agree with everything that has jus...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
First, I have a brief comment on Liam McArthur and Jackie Baillie’s amendments. I agree with Liam McArthur that the meaning that is captured in the amendment...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I understand the member’s point—you do not lodge an amendment that proposes a time boundary without thinking about such things. On the other hand, the princi...
Patrick Harvie Green
The most important thing that we should bear in mind is that that is how people are overwhelmingly likely to use the right to seek assistance. The idea that ...
Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) SNP
From the outset, my position is that I support Liam McArthur’s amendment 24, because it will allow us to put in place some more safeguards around the definit...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I recognise the member’s commitment to and support for the bill. If there was no time limit, what would be the difference between a person living as a disabl...
Elena Whitham SNP
We have heard from Liam McArthur about the differences. I agree that people who are terminally ill will, by definition, probably be considered to be disabled...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
Elena Whitham said that she is not minded to support a six-month prognosis at this stage but indicated that, as the debate goes on, she could be persuaded ot...
The Convener SNP
I call Jeremy Balfour to wind up. I remind members that, if amendment 143 is agreed to, I cannot call amendments 4 and 144, due to pre-emption.