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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 May 2024

14 May 2024 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill

I thank the Parliament’s clerks for their assistance with amendments to stage 3. I also pay tribute to and thank the Minister for Housing for the constructive way in which he has approached cross-party work on the bill. It has been very important for us to take that forward.

Last Monday, I met a group of residents who live in an orphan development in the capital to discuss the cladding bill and what they hope is the start of the end of what they have called a living hell. The stress that residents have faced and the information vacuum that they have had to live with has been unacceptable, especially when we consider that they are our constituents and are living in properties that have been labelled as potentially containing cladding that poses a threat to life. They were absolutely clear that they want a solution as soon as possible, because too many people’s lives have been put on hold as they wait to find out whether the cladding on their buildings is safe and what works need to be undertaken to allow them to move on with their lives. One resident said, “This whole situation has been really upsetting for many of us—this total lack of actual work—and we remain stuck in our properties, deemed fire risks, and unable to sell.”

I sincerely hope that the passing of the bill today will be the start of a solutions-based approach by the Government to deliver the outcomes that are needed to let people move on with their lives. This cannot just be a process; it must be about delivering the outcomes. The Scottish Government must implement the bill at speed and commission the surveying of buildings and the managed delivery of solutions at pace.

I would also like to make an appeal for the orphan buildings that were part of the initial pilot to be given an early focus. We know that they were in the pilot schemes, but I hope that ministers will acknowledge that those people have been let down and that the potential solution that has already been outlined to many residents must focus on the Government’s commissioning of surveys and works for those buildings. I have said to my constituents that I would write to the minister to see whether he would meet them to discuss how that can be done, not just for their development but for the other pilot projects.

As I stated at stages 1 and 2, I am determined to improve the rights of residents, including their right to be kept informed of not only the surveying work that is taking place, but any remediation work that will take place and how that will impact on their homes.

I hope that the amendments in my name that are now included in the bill will give residents the reporting mechanisms that will inform them of what is happening and when remediation work will take place. Good lines of communication are critically important, and I hope that the poor experiences that residents have had will now change.

As the minister stated in his letter to MSPs, the collaborative approach regarding the bill will extend beyond its parliamentary passage. I really welcome that. It is hugely important that the minister returns to Parliament with further updates on the programme and the progress that is being made. I hope that Parliament and the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee will take an active role in ensuring that that work is progressed.

The bill has created a framework for progress, but it is critically important that we now see that all the outcomes are delivered. As the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee stated, progress by the Scottish Government some seven years on has been “concerningly slow”. That is in sharp contrast with England, where more than two fifths of buildings have had work either started or completed, with 1,608 buildings in the scope of that programme in comparison with 105 in Scotland. That is why it is understandable that industry witnesses who gave evidence to committee expressed significant frustration at the slow progress in Scotland and the lack of leadership to date. I hope that the minister is about to change that.

Although the bill is often technical in nature, as with all framework bills, the devil is in the detail. I hope that both the guidance and ministerial direction will be properly scrutinised, especially to look at the impacts not only on our constituents but on small and medium-sized enterprises.

During the stage 1 debate, it was clear from the evidence, and from the discussions that the committee had, that many buildings will need on-going management and, often, bespoke factoring solutions. A number of points on that were outlined during the debate earlier. I hope that we will now see details of how that aspect will be taken forward. Although many of those issues are outside the scope of the bill, they are important, and I hope that ministers will look to update Parliament on how they will be taken forward.

Members, including my colleague Graham Simpson, have mentioned electric cars. That issue was raised with the committee on many occasions, and we need to take seriously concerns over the management of electric cars and bikes.

In a letter that the minister sent to me, dated 7 May, he stated that the Government’s approach to purpose-built accommodation for students in the HMO sector, as well as to care homes, hotels and hospitals, was not in the scope of the bill, but he was content with the safeguards in place for those buildings. I hope that the housing minister will agree to update Parliament in the future on those buildings, including the potential for publishing data around any remediation work that is already taking place and how the guidance might be developed to include those sectors.

The amendments that have been accepted today—for example, the amendment in Pam Duncan-Glancy’s name—can provide an opportunity for better safeguarding for disabled people in those developments and others. That has presented Parliament with an opportunity to look at how we evacuate all buildings in Scotland, especially when it comes to vulnerable people in hospitals and care homes and disabled people in all properties. I am sure that colleagues, and the committee, will want to revisit that.

Scottish Conservatives will support the bill at decision time tonight, but we do so with reservations about the Government’s limited progress to date. That has to change, but the reporting duties in the bill and the role that Parliament now has to challenge ministers on the delivery of outcomes have improved.

Above all, I hope that the Scottish Government will now give leadership and priority to the expanded team in the Scottish Government who will take forward this work. It is critically important that we deliver. We have two years left of the current session of Parliament; I certainly hope that, by the end of that time, all our constituents who are living in those 105 homes will have had the surveys take place and will know that work will be paid for and taken forward to make their homes safe, and that, above all, we can ensure that Scotland never sees a Grenfell-type tragedy.

16:19  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-13190, in the name of Paul McLennan, on the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill. I invite memb...
The Minister for Housing (Paul McLennan) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 3 debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill. I am sure that we all recall the events of 14 June 2017. The...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank the Parliament’s clerks for their assistance with amendments to stage 3. I also pay tribute to and thank the Minister for Housing for the constructiv...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank the members of the bill team and the minister for making themselves available to my Labour colleagues and me during the passage of the bill. I also t...
Ariane Burgess (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
The Scottish Government’s stated ambition for the bill is to accelerate the progress of the cladding remediation programme. It is good to see that the commit...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I thank members for their efforts in successfully piloting the bill through Parliament. I also thank the staff, the clerks and the bill team. I am grateful t...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
I pay tribute to all my colleagues—committee members and other colleagues—who helped to steer and shape the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill th...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
I, too, add my congratulations to the committee, the minister and the Government for getting the bill to where it is today. The bill is better today than it ...
Richard Leonard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
One month from today, 14 June, will mark seven years since the Grenfell tower fire, which claimed the lives of 72 people. That it has taken so long for the P...
Ariane Burgess Green
The Scottish Government’s stated ambition for the bill is to accelerate the progress of the cladding remediation programme. In closing the debate, I reiterat...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
It is a pleasure to close the debate for Scottish Labour. As we have heard, since the Grenfell tower tragedy, the Scottish Government has fallen behind the r...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I will start my speech as I started my speech at stage 1, by remembering what started this all off. Others have said it, but I will repeat it. When Grenfell ...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
Like Mr Simpson, I want to see action as quickly as possible for my constituents. Does he agree that one of the many learning points on the issue, over the p...
Graham Simpson Con
I am disappointed in Ben Macpherson for that contribution. I normally agree with a lot of what he says, but to try to seek division between Governments on th...
Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Graham Simpson Con
I will. Can I have extra time, Presiding Officer?
Alasdair Allan SNP
I was merely muttering to myself, but I think that Ben Macpherson said the opposite of what Graham Simpson has characterised him as having said.
Graham Simpson Con
I will continue. In the previous session, I and others pressed the then housing minister, Kevin Stewart, for action. Jeremy Balfour mentioned that. However,...
Ben Macpherson SNP
Will Mr Simpson take another intervention?
Graham Simpson Con
I really am going to need extra time if I take another intervention.
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
I can allow a little extra time.
Ben Macpherson SNP
I thank Mr Simpson for taking the intervention. I know from our work on tenements that he understands this point very well, but the fact that we have a diffe...
Graham Simpson Con
I thank Ben Macpherson for that intervention, but I say to him that it should not have taken seven years for us to get to this point. I think that he would a...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Paul McLennan to wind up—until 10 past 5, minister.
Paul McLennan SNP
For how long, Presiding Officer?
The Presiding Officer NPA
Until 5.10. 17:01
Paul McLennan SNP
First, I thank the bill team for its help and guidance, and I thank the wider cladding team. They have been a fantastic help to me, so I express my personal ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
That concludes the debate on the Housing (Cladding Remediation) (Scotland) Bill.