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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 October 2025 [Draft]

01 Oct 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Protecting Scotland’s Fire Service

I thank Katy Clark for securing this important debate for the chamber.

The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service is a life-saving organisation, which protects people, homes, businesses and the environment every day. Its importance can be seen in towns and cities, where firefighters race to put out potentially devastating fires in minutes, and it can increasingly be seen in the countryside, as they tackle raging wildfires that threaten to run out of control, ruin wildlife and pose risks for those who live in remote and rural communities.

The importance of firefighters is seldom more recognised than when they put themselves in danger, without hesitation, to ensure that we can live safely. In the process, many have been injured and some have tragically lost their lives. We should take the opportunity to again remember the ultimate sacrifices that were made by Ewan Williamson in 2009 and, more recently, by Barry Martin in 2023. In fact, it seems that the Scottish Government is alone in not fully comprehending the fire brigade’s importance. It is quick to praise firefighters and to talk up its support for them, but the money and the numbers tell a vastly different story.

Since the creation of the single fire service in 2013—a move that was supposed to create a nimbler and more effective organisation—things have got decidedly worse. There has been a reduction of 1,215 uniformed firefighters in that time, which represents a drop of almost 16 per cent, and, although ministers talk about uplifts in funding, the real-terms picture shows that there have been devastating cuts to the budget over a number of years. Scottish Conservative research shows the effects that those cuts have had on performance statistics. Average response times have increased by one and a half minutes.

That all begs the question, why? Why did the Scottish National Party Government centralise the fire service only to subsequently oversee brutal cuts and woeful mismanagement? The minister in charge likes to make the point that Scotland has more firefighters per head than England, but anyone who understands the geography of Scotland and appreciates how spread out and remote our communities are in comparison with those in England knows that that is a completely ridiculous argument.

The efficiencies that are proposed by the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service are truly terrifying and difficult to believe. The chief officer, Stuart Stevens, is on record as saying that the efficiencies will go ahead only if they ensure

“the safety of the community of Scotland.”

If that is the case and the service’s damaging proposals can be vetoed on the ground of people’s safety, those changes must be stopped and an improved funding settlement from the Scottish Government delivered.

I fully support the FBU and its cuts leave scars campaign. Unlike the Scottish Government, it understands the genuine risks that the proposed efficiencies will pose. The fire brigade is facing a range of new challenges, yet it is expected to meet them with fewer tools.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-19124, in the name of Katy Clark, on protecting Scotland’s fire service. I invite members who wish to spe...
Katy Clark (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Scottish Labour has lodged the motion because the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service is in a state of crisis. The Fire Brigades Union Scotland has been warning...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
Does the Labour Party believe that rural areas could be disproportionately affected by the proposals from the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, because they ...
Katy Clark Lab
Rachael Hamilton makes her point well, and I agree. The plans that have been outlined would further damage the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service and add to t...
The Minister for Victims and Community Safety (Siobhian Brown) SNP
The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, which has been a single national service since 2013, is one of Scotland’s success stories. We have a successful emergen...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I join the minister in paying tribute to our firefighters, who do a wonderful job. However, in regions such as mine—the Highlands and Islands—less than 10 pe...
Siobhian Brown SNP
The bill that became the Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Act 2012 was supported by Labour at the time. The reduction in the number of firefighters is prima...
Katy Clark Lab
Will the minister be addressing the concerning increases in response and call-handling times?
Siobhian Brown SNP
I will get to that. Climate change is contributing to warmer, drier conditions, which increase the likelihood and intensity of wildfires. As I said yesterda...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Siobhian Brown SNP
I would like to make some progress. Continuing to keep everything the same for decades would not be efficient or effective and would not ensure that taxpaye...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the minister give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The minister will be concluding shortly.
Siobhian Brown SNP
I must make some progress. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service plans to redeploy resources that are freed up by making changes to front-line delivery to pr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Minister, you need to bring your remarks to a close.
Siobhian Brown SNP
I conclude by saying something about response times—that is really important because, if anything about that is misconstrued, it can cause public fear. The S...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Minister, you need to conclude and move your amendment.
Siobhian Brown SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will try to update Parliament more in my closing speech. I move amendment S6M-19124.2, to leave out from “expresses” to end ...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Katy Clark for securing this important debate for the chamber. The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service is a life-saving organisation, which protects pe...
Siobhian Brown SNP
Will Sharon Dowey take an intervention?
Sharon Dowey Con
Would I get the time back, Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is no time in hand.
Sharon Dowey Con
I am sorry. Wildfires are on the rise. Newer developments such as recycling centres and battery energy storage systems also present a fresh challenge. Scotl...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I invite Maggie Chapman to open on behalf of the Scottish Greens. 16:18
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I begin by paying tribute to all of Scotland’s firefighters—our fireys—who put themselves in harm’s way every day to protect us; to their families who live w...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I thank Katy Clark for lodging the motion for debate, which provides an opportunity to highlight the central role that the fire service plays in protecting c...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. 16:26
Richard Leonard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
What is taking place in our communities is not a Scottish Fire and Rescue Service delivery review—it is an experiment, and it is one which, as a matter of pu...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
This is an important debate. I took part in the public consultation and have informed my constituents that I do not support the proposals for Inverclyde. To ...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member take an intervention?