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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 October 2025 [Draft]

01 Oct 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Mobile Phones in Schools
Kerr, Stephen Con Central Scotland Watch on SPTV

How about that? A Government that is not distracted by manufacturing grievance all day long—that would be quite an improvement on the Government that we have.

I know that there are wider issues—Patrick Harvie went on at length about the wider issues—but we are talking about the learning environment in schools. That is what we are talking about. I had not come across the word “hypervigilance”. I like that. It is a good description of exactly what we are trying to combat.

I make no apology for standing up to argue in favour of order and discipline in our schools, because order and discipline require consequences and sanctions. Without them there is no respect; without respect, there is no learning environment. Those are not optional extras—they are the very foundations of what makes an education system work.

I know that sometimes we have an aversion in the Parliament to looking at evidence, but we must look at the evidence of what has happened elsewhere. In Spain, they talk about gaining the equivalent of up to a year of extra learning in science, and there have been significant improvements in maths. In Norway, a ban has boosted girls’ grades, reduced bullying and lowered stress and anxiety. In North America, for goodness’ sake, the evidence shows calmer lessons, higher levels of engagement in the classroom and improved test scores.

The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization is unequivocal that a smartphone should be used in school

“only when it supports learning”.

The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development has shown that digital distraction costs people months of learning time, with two thirds of teenagers in its surveys admitting that they are distracted in class by phones—sometimes their own, often those of their classmates.

The Scottish Government has highlighted in its own behaviour in Scottish schools research report that the

“abusive use of mobile phones and digital technologies was one of the most ... serious”

disciplinary problems in our classrooms. The same report revealed shocking rises in violence and disruption. Almost 90 per cent of teachers in secondary schools said that pupils were sometimes or frequently off task, and more than half reported serious verbal abuse. Physical violence against teachers has also risen alarmingly.

The conclusion is obvious: mobile phones undermine learning, discipline and the happiness of children and young people, and they undermine the authority of teachers. As a general rule, they should not be seen or used in classrooms, save in the rarest of circumstances, when they directly support learning. However—this is the point, and I am aghast that the cabinet secretary cannot grasp this—teachers and headteachers cannot do this alone. We might say that they have autonomy to do this, which is true, but it is not an easy thing to do. They have to deal with the consequences of their decision to ban mobile phones in their schools. That point has been highlighted by other members. Headteachers are standing up to the everyday disruption, disorder and, often, violence. They are often left feeling—anyone who has spoken to a headteacher must know this—that they are alone in confronting those challenges, because the national direction and guidance are lacking and they are without the back-up from the Parliament that they badly need.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-19123, in the name of Pam Duncan-Glancy, on mobile phones in schools. 14:52
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Presiding Officer, “It helped me focus.” “Fights and bullying at breaks have got better—because no one has their phones in class to organise them.” “I spe...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I am interested in the member’s point about a postcode lottery. In Scotland, the Education (Scotland) Act 1980 makes it clear that statutory responsibility f...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I draw the cabinet secretary’s attention to section 2 of the 1980 act, which has regulating-making powers for the Government in a wide range of areas. One ha...
Karen Adam (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
In the absence of the iPads that the SNP promised, where teachers want to use devices in lessons in schools where bans exist, teachers have the option to say...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You do not really have time, Ms Duncan-Glancy.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I apologise to Karen Adam, but I cannot take her intervention. With a national ban, the default changes from phones first to learning first. That is what we...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I advise members that, as ever when there are two debates during the afternoon, we are pretty tight for time. There is not a lot of additional time. 15:00
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
The Government agrees with the premise behind the Scottish Labour Party’s motion that mobile phones should be banned in our schools. The motion from Labour i...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
The point that I made when I set out why we are proposing the motion is that you are leaving it up to headteachers to take a big decision on what goes on in ...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I say to the member, very gently, that it is quite clear in the national guidance that our headteachers are already empowered to carry out mobile phone bans....
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am happy to do so.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
We are not proposing primary legislation. What I said was that the cabinet secretary is the person who said that legislation was required. If you chose to do...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Always speak through the chair.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
As I have just intimated, whether or not it is primary legislation that is being proposed—I hear the member’s point in relation to regulations—I have to ask ...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank the Labour Party for holding a debate on mobile phone use in schools. The Scottish Conservatives held a similar debate in January this year, and I am...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
Pam Duncan-Glancy quoted young people welcoming the change of policy on phones in classrooms, and she talked about having a sensible boundary during lessons....
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I think that there is agreement that the use of mobile phones in the class can be incredibly distracting. There is growing evidence from across the education...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the open debate. 15:18
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I believe that it is time to ban mobile phones in all Scottish classrooms. We need to shield children from harmful content, misinformation, bullying and othe...
Paul McLennan (East Lothian) (SNP) SNP
I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy for bringing the motion for debate in the chamber. Many of us have had casework on the issue over the past few years. East Lothian ...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Some of the children whom I have spoken to in East Lothian and beyond say that they use their mobile devices in classrooms as a learning aid. Is the member e...
Paul McLennan SNP
No, I am not embarrassed. The Government has made good progress on that. We need to equip headteachers with guidance and with the means to act in the best i...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Paul McLennan SNP
I am sorry, but I only have four minutes, and I have already taken one intervention. The Government is now providing schools with comprehensive guidance on ...
Neil Bibby (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to speak in support of Pam Duncan-Glancy’s motion, which calls for mobile phones to be banned for learners in school classrooms. We...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
How about that? A Government that is not distracted by manufacturing grievance all day long—that would be quite an improvement on the Government that we have...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Will the member take an intervention?