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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 September 2025

25 Sep 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

We are, of course, always happy to work with members across the chamber during the progress of any bill and to improve any piece of legislation. We will not support this bill at stage 1, as I will come to describe. However, if the bill passes, of course we will be prepared to work with others to look at ways to make it as good as it can possibly be, as we always will try to do.

Our approach to skills education starts with three simple principles. First, it should be industry led, delivered in partnership with education providers, and employers must have a genuine voice in its design and provision so that our education system matches people with the jobs of today and tomorrow. Yet, as has been mentioned, the Scottish apprenticeship advisory board, whose work has been a well-respected way of doing that, may or may not be wound down—we have no clarity on that. We also have no clarity on what its replacement could be, or a coherent plan to address key public sector skills gaps, such as those in the national health service or in education. Many of those sectors rely on colleges and universities being supported to deliver the skills that are needed in those sectors. We have to reform the system now.

Secondly, the system must be individually focused, flexible and dynamic. The bill will not make it so. Learners of all ages need flexible routes that value technical and vocational learning as much as academic pathways. That means having taster apprenticeships, to improve matching and to reduce dropout rates; teaching Scottish industry standards in the senior phase, so that pupils can see how subject choices connect to real jobs; and offering a digital skills passport, so that employers and other people can recognise skills consistently.

Thirdly, our skills system must deliver opportunity. To do that, we must expand, widen access to and speed up approvals for new apprenticeship frameworks. That will include empowering the speedy development of more apprenticeships, including at graduate level. Students want to earn and learn. Apprenticeships could be a faster route to solving our skills gaps and universities are ready to innovate with them.

All that would help now, and we could do it all now without a lengthy and costly rejig of quangos. We could be using this time to get people into jobs, which would give employers access to the skills that they need and give colleges and universities the money that could save them.

Colleagues, I do not doubt the intent behind consolidation, but Parliament has heard evidence that raises concerns about cost, capacity and risk during the transition. Unison said that the proposals are “fraught with risk”, and Unite the Union and the Public and Commercial Services Union said that they were not consulted properly. All that led the Education, Children and Young People Committee to the conclusion that it could not recommend the bill.

We need change now—urgent, practical, front-line change. The Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill does not do that. It risks pooling resource and focusing on machinery, not delivery. Scottish Labour cannot offer our support for something that will not deliver front-line, tangible change now, especially when what is at stake is whether we will widen opportunity, close skills gaps and grow Scotland’s economy. Those aims are too important to divert time, energy and action from.

15:29  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-19027, in the name of Ben Macpherson, on the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Sc...
The Minister for Higher and Further Education (Ben Macpherson) SNP
I am pleased to open today’s debate on the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill as my first contribution to parliamentary...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I welcome Ben Macpherson to his new role. When he met Dr Liz Cameron from the Scottish Chambers of Commerce, did she express her strong opposition to the bil...
Ben Macpherson SNP
My engagement with the Chambers of Commerce and with Dr Liz Cameron has been extensive over my years as an MSP, and I respect her and the organisation very m...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Does the minister accept that Universities Scotland and others have said that those changes could happen now, and that there is money associated with the bil...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I was pleased to speak with Universities Scotland yesterday, and I was pleased to see the support for the bill that it issued in advance of today’s debate.
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member give way?
Ben Macpherson SNP
I need to make some progress, but thank you. At its core, the bill intends to make impactful changes to ensure that funding goes directly to where it matter...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
Will the minister give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The minister should be starting to conclude his remarks.
Ben Macpherson SNP
We want to consider what improvements can be made to the range of different models for vocational pathways so that we can build on good practice and protect ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Douglas Ross to speak on behalf of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. 15:07
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Education, Children and Young People Committee about our scrutiny of the Tertiary Education and T...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call on Miles Briggs to open on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives. 15:15
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I welcome the minister to his role, as I did on Tuesday. I also thank Graeme Dey for his constructive work on the bill both cross party and with the Educati...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
This morning.
Miles Briggs Con
Oh—this morning. The work that the school is undertaking with young people in that part of the capital—especially those with attendance challenges—is exempl...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Miles Briggs Con
Yes, very briefly.
Daniel Johnson Lab
Although some sectors might well value the delivery of the skills system through alternative provision, specifically private provision, is there not also a r...
Miles Briggs Con
Yes, and I will come on to that. That is, as the committee highlighted, one of the main concerns. According to Audit Scotland’s report “Scotland’s colleges ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Pam Duncan-Glancy to open on behalf of Scottish Labour. 15:22
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
We have a proud history of skills in Scotland. Our people are among the most talented in the world, and we punch above our weight when it comes to our contri...
Ben Macpherson SNP
As I outlined in my opening remarks, there is a shared understanding that, across the chamber, we need to make improvements throughout the country. Does the ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I welcome the minister’s intervention. Forgive me, but I should have started by welcoming him to his place and congratulating him again on his new role. Of ...
Ben Macpherson SNP
Made a request to intervene.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Presiding Officer, do I have time to take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give you a bit of time back.
Ben Macpherson SNP
It would be helpful for me at this juncture to understand whether the parties that are opposing the bill today have a determination to work with the proposed...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
We are, of course, always happy to work with members across the chamber during the progress of any bill and to improve any piece of legislation. We will not ...