Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 18 September 2025
18 Sep 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Stephen Kerr is absolutely right. He should be aware that there are 18 workstreams across the PSR strategy, and we have spent the summer putting together the teams that will lead each of those workstreams. The action plan for workstream 4, along with the other 17 action plans, will be published shortly, so that members can see the deadlines for that work.
Reforming Scotland’s public services is vital to ensuring that people experience high-quality services that are focused on those who need them most. However, Government involvement in reviewing the parliamentary commissioner landscape is, by its nature, constrained and, at times, inappropriate, due to the nature of the services that those bodies deliver and their independence from Government. I appreciate that the committee’s review was born out of concerns about an expanding commissioner landscape and what that could mean for public finance and effective service delivery. SPCB-supported office-holders budgeted £18.3 million for the year 2024-25, and that figure is set to rise following the introduction of the new Patient Safety Commissioner for Scotland. That needs to be set in the wider context of about a £5 billion corporate spend across the Scottish public body and Scottish Government landscape.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur)
LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-18936, in the name of Ben Macpherson, on behalf of the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee, ...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
SNP
As convener of the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee, I am pleased to open the debate. The strategic review was commissioned by the Parliamen...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Given that the findings were unanimous and followed on from the unanimous findings of the Finance and Public Administration Committee, does the member agree ...
Ben Macpherson
SNP
I do, and I urge Parliament not to support the amendment. I will say more about that in due course. Before I turn to the detail of our deliberations and our...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Ind
Ben Macpherson talks about the existing landscape, but does he accept that, for most people, having a standards commission and a commissioner for ethical sta...
Ben Macpherson
SNP
In some ways, I can see why members and others might look at the distinction between the two bodies critically. However, our committee heard quite good evide...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Only yesterday, in passing the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill at stage 3, we brought into existence the role of victims and witnesses...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
I can give you the time back for interventions, Mr Macpherson.
Ben Macpherson
SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank Martin Whitfield for a constructive intervention. The committee took into consideration the processes that were put fo...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
I think that the committee’s report is a must-read for all MSPs. Although we lodged an amendment to the motion, Scottish Labour welcomes and notes the report...
John Mason
Ind
Will the member give way?
Sarah Boyack
Lab
I will not because I am very tight for time—perhaps, if I have time later, I will. The recommendations on induction and training in the next session of the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
LD
Thank you, Ms Boyack. I advise members that we have a bit of time in hand, so I imagine that members will be able to get the time back for any interventions....
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green)
Green
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am speaking today as a member of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. I begin by thanking the SPCB Supported Bodies Lan...
Martin Whitfield
Lab
Is the SPCB concerned that, if a new committee is created to, in effect, apply the two tests for a new commissioner, the SPCB would be required to give evide...
Maggie Chapman
Green
I will come on to say more about the potential new committee in a moment. The corporate body wants to ensure that the office-holder landscape is coherent and...
Ben Macpherson
SNP
As a point of clarity, it is worth emphasising that the committee’s recommendation was not necessarily that a new committee be established. That was a potent...
Maggie Chapman
Green
Yes, that is understood, and that is why I couched my comments in such a way as to refer to what would happen should that committee be established. However, ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing)
SNP
I call Kenneth Gibson to speak on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. 15:48
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
SNP
I am delighted to speak on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. As members know, the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee w...
Martin Whitfield
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Kenneth Gibson
SNP
I am happy to take an intervention from the defender of the committee structures.
Martin Whitfield
Lab
I have great respect for Kenneth Gibson, but I find his comment about an amendment to a motion—albeit on the back of a committee debate, which was occasioned...
Kenneth Gibson
SNP
That is desperate stuff. Let us be honest: if the member’s colleague who is sat next to him, Sarah Boyack, did not have a proposal to create a commissioner, ...
The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee)
SNP
I welcome the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee’s report and recommendations on how the SPCB-supported bodies landscape can be improved. It is...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
For clarity, and bearing in mind Kenny Gibson’s comment about how a deadline helps to get things delivered, when is the deadline for that work to be completed?
Ivan McKee
SNP
Stephen Kerr is absolutely right. He should be aware that there are 18 workstreams across the PSR strategy, and we have spent the summer putting together the...
John Mason
Ind
I take the minister’s point—he has said it before, and he is absolutely right—that that is a relatively small amount of money in the scheme of things. Howeve...
Ivan McKee
SNP
John Mason makes that point very well. I acknowledged at the start of my contribution that the debate has much wider significance across the public service r...
Martin Whitfield
Lab
With regard to the concept of a human rights commissioner, will the Scottish Government follow the process that it has taken with the victims and witnesses c...