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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 September 2025

18 Sep 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Chapman, Maggie Green North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

Yes, that is understood, and that is why I couched my comments in such a way as to refer to what would happen should that committee be established. However, even if it is not established and the responsibilities lie elsewhere, the corporate body will obviously work with the relevant committee to ensure that the process works as smoothly as it can.

I turn to specific recommendations in the committee’s report, starting with the new set of criteria that the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee developed. The corporate body is very supportive of the set of criteria and the strong message that it sends on shared services. Should the Parliament endorse that recommendation and the recommendations relating to the inclusion of the criteria in parliamentary guidance on bills and a standing order determination, officials will be asked to bring forward proposals on how the recommendations can be implemented.

The corporate body notes the recommendations relating to existing SPCB-supported bodies. Again, should those recommendations be endorsed by the Parliament, we will work with relevant office-holders and the Scottish Government, as appropriate, to implement them. As the committee acknowledges, those proposals will require additional resources, which will be an important consideration, given the wider public finance context.

To ensure that we undertake our role properly, we have put a number of governance arrangements in place, but we note the deficiencies that have been identified by both the Finance and Public Administration Committee and the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee in the governance and accountability of corporate body-supported bodies. Additional work in that area would require the SPCB’s approach to all its work to be reviewed to ensure that we have fulfilled all our responsibilities, but we will, of course, always give effect to the will of the Parliament.

I want to speak directly to the recommendations at paragraphs 158 to 161, on giving a parliamentary committee

“the specific responsibility for the accountability and scrutiny of SPCB supported bodies”.

To be clear, I note that the establishment of committees and their remits is not a matter for the corporate body. Furthermore, the SPCB is aware of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee’s inquiry into committee effectiveness, which includes consideration of the changes that can be made to strengthen the ability of committees to undertake scrutiny work across a range of policy areas. The corporate body is conscious that there are several pressures in the system and that a new committee structure for session 7 will need to balance those demands alongside capacity constraints, including in member and Scottish parliamentary service resources.

The corporate body is also mindful that its statutory functions, duties and responsibilities are set out within the broader constitutional landscape. Should the recommendation at paragraph 160 be endorsed by the Parliament, the SPCB will commit to collaborating on whether the delegation or transfer of SPCB functions would be desirable within the framework and, if so, how that can be achieved. As the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee acknowledges, that will require legislative change, given that various acts mention the corporate body specifically in relation to a range of functions. We will therefore ask officials to undertake a mapping exercise prior to session 7 to clearly set out functions for each body, the statutory basis for those functions and what the options for change would look like. If the recommendation at paragraph 161 is endorsed, we will commit to exploring how to improve operational oversight of office-holders in the context of the session 7 committee structure.

I will comment briefly on the amendment, but only to say that, as ever, the SPCB will seek to implement the will of Parliament. Parliament should be clear that, if the amendment is agreed to, there will not be a basis for the SPCB to take the steps that I have outlined above. I repeat that it is for Parliament to take the decision, but it is important that Parliament is clear on the implications of that decision.

Before I move on to the subject of shared services, I will briefly comment on the budget and audit recommendations. I highlight the on-going review of the public audit model by the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission, and I note that the corporate body will engage with that review. I also highlight the corporate body’s agreement with the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee’s view that

“medium to long-term financial planning is not hindered by an annual budget and funding cycle”.

I move on to the recommendations that relate to shared services. The corporate body welcomes the acknowledgement of the improvements in that area. Five office-holders are now co-located at Bridgeside house, with the Patient Safety Commissioner for Scotland having taken up post on 1 September. That co-location has resulted in further accommodation savings. The corporate body welcomes the recommendation relating to a hub-and-spoke model and will work with office-holders to implement it as opportunities to do so arise. In related work, the corporate body recently established an accommodation audit in relation to office-holders and, through that process, is looking at the use of the wider public sector estate. As such, we welcome the recommendation in that area.

I conclude by thanking all the office-holders again for their dedicated work, and I thank the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee, too, for its report.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-18936, in the name of Ben Macpherson, on behalf of the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee, ...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
As convener of the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee, I am pleased to open the debate. The strategic review was commissioned by the Parliamen...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Given that the findings were unanimous and followed on from the unanimous findings of the Finance and Public Administration Committee, does the member agree ...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I do, and I urge Parliament not to support the amendment. I will say more about that in due course. Before I turn to the detail of our deliberations and our...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
Ben Macpherson talks about the existing landscape, but does he accept that, for most people, having a standards commission and a commissioner for ethical sta...
Ben Macpherson SNP
In some ways, I can see why members and others might look at the distinction between the two bodies critically. However, our committee heard quite good evide...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Only yesterday, in passing the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill at stage 3, we brought into existence the role of victims and witnesses...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for interventions, Mr Macpherson.
Ben Macpherson SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank Martin Whitfield for a constructive intervention. The committee took into consideration the processes that were put fo...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I think that the committee’s report is a must-read for all MSPs. Although we lodged an amendment to the motion, Scottish Labour welcomes and notes the report...
John Mason Ind
Will the member give way?
Sarah Boyack Lab
I will not because I am very tight for time—perhaps, if I have time later, I will. The recommendations on induction and training in the next session of the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Ms Boyack. I advise members that we have a bit of time in hand, so I imagine that members will be able to get the time back for any interventions....
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am speaking today as a member of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. I begin by thanking the SPCB Supported Bodies Lan...
Martin Whitfield Lab
Is the SPCB concerned that, if a new committee is created to, in effect, apply the two tests for a new commissioner, the SPCB would be required to give evide...
Maggie Chapman Green
I will come on to say more about the potential new committee in a moment. The corporate body wants to ensure that the office-holder landscape is coherent and...
Ben Macpherson SNP
As a point of clarity, it is worth emphasising that the committee’s recommendation was not necessarily that a new committee be established. That was a potent...
Maggie Chapman Green
Yes, that is understood, and that is why I couched my comments in such a way as to refer to what would happen should that committee be established. However, ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
I call Kenneth Gibson to speak on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. 15:48
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to speak on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. As members know, the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee w...
Martin Whitfield Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Kenneth Gibson SNP
I am happy to take an intervention from the defender of the committee structures.
Martin Whitfield Lab
I have great respect for Kenneth Gibson, but I find his comment about an amendment to a motion—albeit on the back of a committee debate, which was occasioned...
Kenneth Gibson SNP
That is desperate stuff. Let us be honest: if the member’s colleague who is sat next to him, Sarah Boyack, did not have a proposal to create a commissioner, ...
The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee) SNP
I welcome the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee’s report and recommendations on how the SPCB-supported bodies landscape can be improved. It is...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
For clarity, and bearing in mind Kenny Gibson’s comment about how a deadline helps to get things delivered, when is the deadline for that work to be completed?
Ivan McKee SNP
Stephen Kerr is absolutely right. He should be aware that there are 18 workstreams across the PSR strategy, and we have spent the summer putting together the...
John Mason Ind
I take the minister’s point—he has said it before, and he is absolutely right—that that is a relatively small amount of money in the scheme of things. Howeve...
Ivan McKee SNP
John Mason makes that point very well. I acknowledged at the start of my contribution that the debate has much wider significance across the public service r...
Martin Whitfield Lab
With regard to the concept of a human rights commissioner, will the Scottish Government follow the process that it has taken with the victims and witnesses c...