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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 September 2025

18 Sep 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Macpherson, Ben SNP Edinburgh Northern and Leith Watch on SPTV

Thank you, Presiding Officer.

I thank Martin Whitfield for a constructive intervention. The committee took into consideration the processes that were put forward in Government bills and in members’ bills. The proposal for the role of victims and witnesses commissioner, which was established through the passing of the bill yesterday, was well advanced when our committee was given its remit, and it was obviously a factor in our considerations. I am happy to follow up on the point that Martin Whitfield has raised later in the debate, if that would be helpful.

Although we acknowledge the adaptability of SPCB members to give effect to the will of the Parliament and put in place oversight mechanisms, we do not believe that that can be sustained without diminishing other core functions of the SPCB. Through reviewing alternative models both in the UK and internationally, we have concluded that a parliamentary committee should be given specific responsibility for the accountability and scrutiny of SPCB-supported bodies for a fixed period as a pilot in session 7.

We do not make that recommendation lightly, and we understand that the existing capacity issues for MSPs and parliamentary committees are significant. However, we firmly believe that a single committee with accountability and scrutiny functions for all the SPCB-supported bodies is absolutely necessary in order to enhance effectiveness and the delivery of outcomes.

In response to our report, the SPCB acknowledged many of the complexities that we identified in making that recommendation. We welcome the SPCB’s positive commitment to work with the parliamentary committee and with officials to explore what would be desirable within the broader constitutional framework and how that can be achieved.

I thank the Minister for Public Finance and the members of the SPCB for their positive responses to the committee’s conclusions and recommendations. Members will see from the report that we have also recommended a series of targeted improvements that could be made to improve how the SPCB-supported bodies landscape and the wider public sector operate. I will cover that in more detail in concluding the debate.

The committee is confident that our conclusions and recommendations will create a clear strategic framework for the SPCB-supported bodies landscape, and I urge all members to support the committee’s motion unamended.

I move,

That the Parliament welcomes and notes the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee’s 1st Report, 2025 (Session 6), SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review (SP Paper 828); recognises the Committee’s conclusions and recommendations, including concerns that expanding the number of SPCB supported bodies risks further fragmenting the current landscape, increasing complexity for service users, and placing additional strain on the SPCB and parliamentary committee resources, and agrees with the Committee’s recommendations that:

(a) the SPCB supported body landscape should not be expanded to include new advocacy-type SPCB supported bodies;

(b) any future proposals for new SPCB supported bodies must satisfy two-tier criteria, as set out in paragraph 150 of the report, comprising both justification and effectiveness tests, and that a parliamentary committee should be given the remit of assessing proposals against these criteria; and

(c) a parliamentary committee should be given the specific responsibility for the accountability and scrutiny of SPCB supported bodies for a fixed period as a pilot exercise in Session 7.

15:33  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-18936, in the name of Ben Macpherson, on behalf of the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee, ...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
As convener of the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee, I am pleased to open the debate. The strategic review was commissioned by the Parliamen...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Given that the findings were unanimous and followed on from the unanimous findings of the Finance and Public Administration Committee, does the member agree ...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I do, and I urge Parliament not to support the amendment. I will say more about that in due course. Before I turn to the detail of our deliberations and our...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
Ben Macpherson talks about the existing landscape, but does he accept that, for most people, having a standards commission and a commissioner for ethical sta...
Ben Macpherson SNP
In some ways, I can see why members and others might look at the distinction between the two bodies critically. However, our committee heard quite good evide...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Only yesterday, in passing the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill at stage 3, we brought into existence the role of victims and witnesses...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for interventions, Mr Macpherson.
Ben Macpherson SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank Martin Whitfield for a constructive intervention. The committee took into consideration the processes that were put fo...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I think that the committee’s report is a must-read for all MSPs. Although we lodged an amendment to the motion, Scottish Labour welcomes and notes the report...
John Mason Ind
Will the member give way?
Sarah Boyack Lab
I will not because I am very tight for time—perhaps, if I have time later, I will. The recommendations on induction and training in the next session of the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Ms Boyack. I advise members that we have a bit of time in hand, so I imagine that members will be able to get the time back for any interventions....
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am speaking today as a member of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. I begin by thanking the SPCB Supported Bodies Lan...
Martin Whitfield Lab
Is the SPCB concerned that, if a new committee is created to, in effect, apply the two tests for a new commissioner, the SPCB would be required to give evide...
Maggie Chapman Green
I will come on to say more about the potential new committee in a moment. The corporate body wants to ensure that the office-holder landscape is coherent and...
Ben Macpherson SNP
As a point of clarity, it is worth emphasising that the committee’s recommendation was not necessarily that a new committee be established. That was a potent...
Maggie Chapman Green
Yes, that is understood, and that is why I couched my comments in such a way as to refer to what would happen should that committee be established. However, ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
I call Kenneth Gibson to speak on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. 15:48
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to speak on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. As members know, the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee w...
Martin Whitfield Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Kenneth Gibson SNP
I am happy to take an intervention from the defender of the committee structures.
Martin Whitfield Lab
I have great respect for Kenneth Gibson, but I find his comment about an amendment to a motion—albeit on the back of a committee debate, which was occasioned...
Kenneth Gibson SNP
That is desperate stuff. Let us be honest: if the member’s colleague who is sat next to him, Sarah Boyack, did not have a proposal to create a commissioner, ...
The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee) SNP
I welcome the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee’s report and recommendations on how the SPCB-supported bodies landscape can be improved. It is...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
For clarity, and bearing in mind Kenny Gibson’s comment about how a deadline helps to get things delivered, when is the deadline for that work to be completed?
Ivan McKee SNP
Stephen Kerr is absolutely right. He should be aware that there are 18 workstreams across the PSR strategy, and we have spent the summer putting together the...
John Mason Ind
I take the minister’s point—he has said it before, and he is absolutely right—that that is a relatively small amount of money in the scheme of things. Howeve...
Ivan McKee SNP
John Mason makes that point very well. I acknowledged at the start of my contribution that the debate has much wider significance across the public service r...
Martin Whitfield Lab
With regard to the concept of a human rights commissioner, will the Scottish Government follow the process that it has taken with the victims and witnesses c...