Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
13
Parties on record
2,355,091
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,355,091 contributions in session S6, 17 Apr 2026 – 17 May 2026. Latest 30 days: 148. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 14 May 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 18 September 2025

18 Sep 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review
Macpherson, Ben SNP Edinburgh Northern and Leith Watch on SPTV

In some ways, I can see why members and others might look at the distinction between the two bodies critically. However, our committee heard quite good evidence—I refer the member to it—about the benefits of the two bodies being separate and distinct.

When our committee was established, there were proposals for up to five new SPCB-supported bodies with advocacy functions to be created before the end of the parliamentary session. As is set out in the motion for the debate, we are concerned that such expansion

“risks further fragmenting the current landscape, increasing complexity for service users, and placing additional strain on the SPCB and parliamentary committee resources”.

Therefore, I urge Parliament to reject the amendment if it is moved. On the basis of the evidence that we received, our committee was clear in its view—which was unanimous—that the SPCB-supported body landscape should not be expanded to include new advocacy-type bodies. Although we understand the benefit in organisations with a public trust element, such as the Ethical Standards Commissioner and the Scottish Information Commissioner, being SPCB supported, we believe that advocacy bodies, where required, could just as effectively sit within the wider public sector landscape.

We accept that there may be future occasions when the establishment of a new SPCB-supported body is justified, but a clear need must be demonstrated. That is why we have recommended the implementation of two-tier criteria comprising justification and effectiveness tests that must be satisfied before any new proposal can be brought forward. The four justification criteria for establishing new SPCB-supported bodies are:

“Last resort: Alternative models, such as enhanced powers to existing public sector bodies, or statutory duties on ministers must be exhausted and deemed insufficient to address the issue.

Functional gap: There must be clear, evidenced and persistent absence of the proposed body’s functional gap across the full Scottish public sector landscape, not just within SPCB supported bodies.

Permanent: The proposed body must address an issue in perpetuity. It cannot be created to deal with an issue that might have arisen due to a short-term failure or perceived failure in public service, or which could be resolved with a fixed-term dedicated piece of work by an existing body.

Independence: The proposed body must require a high degree of operational and perceived independence from the Scottish Government.”

The committee welcomes the Scottish Government’s commitment to explore incorporating those criteria into its own ministerial control framework for new public bodies.

I turn now to the governance and accountability of SPCB-supported bodies, which operates in two broad streams. First, the SPCB is responsible for governance and resourcing, including oversight of budgets, staffing and accommodation. Secondly, parliamentary committees are responsible for holding SPCB-supported bodies to account in the exercise of their functions.

Both our review and the review by the Finance and Public Administration Committee identified capacity as a core challenge. The governance and scrutiny of those bodies has been limited not because of a lack of willingness but because of the finite time and resource that are available to the SPCB and to committees of the Parliament. Our view, therefore, is that solely recommending that the SPCB or parliamentary committees “do more” would not, in itself, bring about the improvements that are required. In that regard, we appreciate, in particular, the amount of legislation that committees have recently had to deal with, and we should all consider that with regard to the next session of Parliament.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-18936, in the name of Ben Macpherson, on behalf of the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee, ...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
As convener of the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee, I am pleased to open the debate. The strategic review was commissioned by the Parliamen...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Given that the findings were unanimous and followed on from the unanimous findings of the Finance and Public Administration Committee, does the member agree ...
Ben Macpherson SNP
I do, and I urge Parliament not to support the amendment. I will say more about that in due course. Before I turn to the detail of our deliberations and our...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
Ben Macpherson talks about the existing landscape, but does he accept that, for most people, having a standards commission and a commissioner for ethical sta...
Ben Macpherson SNP
In some ways, I can see why members and others might look at the distinction between the two bodies critically. However, our committee heard quite good evide...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Only yesterday, in passing the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill at stage 3, we brought into existence the role of victims and witnesses...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for interventions, Mr Macpherson.
Ben Macpherson SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I thank Martin Whitfield for a constructive intervention. The committee took into consideration the processes that were put fo...
Sarah Boyack (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I think that the committee’s report is a must-read for all MSPs. Although we lodged an amendment to the motion, Scottish Labour welcomes and notes the report...
John Mason Ind
Will the member give way?
Sarah Boyack Lab
I will not because I am very tight for time—perhaps, if I have time later, I will. The recommendations on induction and training in the next session of the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Ms Boyack. I advise members that we have a bit of time in hand, so I imagine that members will be able to get the time back for any interventions....
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am speaking today as a member of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. I begin by thanking the SPCB Supported Bodies Lan...
Martin Whitfield Lab
Is the SPCB concerned that, if a new committee is created to, in effect, apply the two tests for a new commissioner, the SPCB would be required to give evide...
Maggie Chapman Green
I will come on to say more about the potential new committee in a moment. The corporate body wants to ensure that the office-holder landscape is coherent and...
Ben Macpherson SNP
As a point of clarity, it is worth emphasising that the committee’s recommendation was not necessarily that a new committee be established. That was a potent...
Maggie Chapman Green
Yes, that is understood, and that is why I couched my comments in such a way as to refer to what would happen should that committee be established. However, ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
I call Kenneth Gibson to speak on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. 15:48
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to speak on behalf of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. As members know, the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee w...
Martin Whitfield Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Kenneth Gibson SNP
I am happy to take an intervention from the defender of the committee structures.
Martin Whitfield Lab
I have great respect for Kenneth Gibson, but I find his comment about an amendment to a motion—albeit on the back of a committee debate, which was occasioned...
Kenneth Gibson SNP
That is desperate stuff. Let us be honest: if the member’s colleague who is sat next to him, Sarah Boyack, did not have a proposal to create a commissioner, ...
The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee) SNP
I welcome the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee’s report and recommendations on how the SPCB-supported bodies landscape can be improved. It is...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
For clarity, and bearing in mind Kenny Gibson’s comment about how a deadline helps to get things delivered, when is the deadline for that work to be completed?
Ivan McKee SNP
Stephen Kerr is absolutely right. He should be aware that there are 18 workstreams across the PSR strategy, and we have spent the summer putting together the...
John Mason Ind
I take the minister’s point—he has said it before, and he is absolutely right—that that is a relatively small amount of money in the scheme of things. Howeve...
Ivan McKee SNP
John Mason makes that point very well. I acknowledged at the start of my contribution that the debate has much wider significance across the public service r...
Martin Whitfield Lab
With regard to the concept of a human rights commissioner, will the Scottish Government follow the process that it has taken with the victims and witnesses c...