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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 September 2025

10 Sep 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland’s Finances
Fraser, Murdo Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

That was a U-turn from Mr McKee within 10 seconds. He stood up and said that we would raise the money, but he has changed his mind completely in the course of just a few seconds. Let me move on, because Mr McKee has already taken up half my time with his intervention.

As is revealed in the GERS figures, the union dividend now accounts for £2,600 for every man, woman and child in Scotland. With that level of extra cash to spend on the national health service, education, justice and infrastructure, surely Scottish residents have the right to expect public services that are so much higher in quality than those in the rest of the UK. Patently, that is not their experience, and, in many cases, outcomes in Scotland are poorer than they are in England, where much less money is being spent.

The second publication that should concern us is the latest report from the Scottish Fiscal Commission, which is the independent watchdog that exists to scrutinise Scottish public finances. The SFC has identified an economic performance gap that it estimates will cost the public sector £1.058 billion in the current fiscal year. In practice, that means that we are losing £1 billion in revenue that would otherwise accrue if Scotland’s economy performed at least at the level of the UK average. The consequences of Scotland’s relative economic underperformance are severe. According to the SFC, the Scottish Government faces a projected £851 million negative reconciliation in the financial year 2027-28, exceeding current borrowing limits, due to the slower increase in earnings in Scotland compared with that in the rest of the UK. At present, no one in the Scottish Government has any idea how that can be funded. Even more seriously, extending to the financial year 2029-30, according to the SFC, Scotland faces a projected £4.8 billion fiscal gap that is made up of resource spending of £2.6 billion and capital spend of £2.1 billion.

The simple fact is that spending is growing faster than revenue, fuelled by increases in the public sector pay bill and the growth in welfare spending. Despite pledges from the Scottish National Party to reduce the size of the public sector workforce, the devolved civil service has grown by almost 60 per cent since 2018-19. Increased pay deals will simply add to the burgeoning public sector cost unless the workforce reductions that were promised are delivered. Perhaps the biggest concern is around social protection spending, which has grown by 55 per cent in real terms since 2020-21, crowding out other budgets. As the SFC makes clear, that is simply not affordable.

Whichever party is in government by 2029-30, that black hole has to be filled. So far, the SNP is in complete denial about the scale of the problem, perhaps hoping that, by then, it will be somebody else’s responsibility to fix it or that Westminster will, once again, come to the rescue—although, given the state of the economy and the UK’s finances under Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves, it is likely to be very disappointed.

So, what do we believe needs to happen? First, we are past the point at which we need to end short-termism in Government spending. We need a full multiyear spending review to identify priorities, make savings and inform needs. Secondly, we need a strategy to cap welfare spending growth, which is currently consuming too large a share of resource spending. Simply put, we have too many people of working age who are in receipt of benefits when they should be part of the workforce. That requires investment in apprenticeships and reskilling, as well as schemes to assist those who are currently far from the workplace to be engaged in meaningful employment.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-18779, in the name of Murdo Fraser, on improving Scotland’s finances. I invite those members who wish to ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
It is my great pleasure to open the debate on improving Scotland’s finances—an ambition that I am sure we all share across the chamber. To help to inform th...
The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee) SNP
Will the member give way?
Murdo Fraser Con
I am happy to give way to Mr McKee, who will explain to us where that £13 billion would come from.
Ivan McKee SNP
Murdo Fraser is barely a minute into his opening remarks and he has completely misrepresented what GERS is. He should know that it is very clearly Scotland’s...
Murdo Fraser Con
Mr McKee has let the cat out of the bag: he has just said that we would have the opportunity to raise more money. I will give way to him again if he can give...
Ivan McKee SNP
The whole point is that we would not have to raise that amount of extra money, because we would not be paying for significant parts of the Whitehall machiner...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I will give you the time back, Mr Fraser.
Murdo Fraser Con
That was a U-turn from Mr McKee within 10 seconds. He stood up and said that we would raise the money, but he has changed his mind completely in the course o...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The member will be concluding shortly.
Murdo Fraser Con
I apologise to Mr Macpherson. Thirdly, we need proper public service reform to see where savings can be made. Mr McKee promises that he can find £1 billion-...
The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee) SNP
I thank Murdo Fraser for bringing attention to the fact that the Scottish Government has been constrained for many years by the austerity measures of the UK ...
Murdo Fraser Con
The GERS figures that I referred to earlier show that public sector spending in Scotland is now equivalent to 52 per cent of gross domestic product. If that ...
Ivan McKee SNP
What has happened over those years is clear, and nobody would deny that we have been under those austerity measures. As I said before, the whole point of ind...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
You have to.
Ivan McKee SNP
I hear Conservative members shouting that we have to do that. Of course we do. The point is that we do it—we deliver that every year—which requires us to man...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
The minister says that he can balance the budget between now and the end of the decade by saving £1 billion in public expenditure through cutting waste and r...
Ivan McKee SNP
The reality is that we are going to deliver that. If the member wants to know where the number comes from, it comes from the numbers that we published last y...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
What would the minister say to Paul Johnson of the Institute for Fiscal Studies, who said that under no circumstances could what the UK Government is doing b...
Ivan McKee SNP
I have just clearly said that, if our spending in Scotland had been growing at the same rate as UK Government spending was growing, in total, we would have £...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Over the past 14 months, the UK Labour Government has decisively ended austerity and has already invested an additional £5.2 billion in Scotland. The UK spen...
Lorna Slater (Lothian) (Green) Green
Every year, when the GERS figures are published, unionist parties treat them as though they are some kind of gotcha. They claim that the numbers prove that S...
Murdo Fraser Con
Will Lorna Slater take an intervention?
Lorna Slater Green
I will make some progress. The UK is one of the most unequal countries in Europe. Wealth is concentrated in very few hands, while families across Scotland s...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Will Ms Slater take an intervention?
Lorna Slater Green
I will carry on. Nearly 1.7 million children are affected by the two-child benefit cap. That policy has pushed about 350,000 children into poverty and 700,0...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You need to bring your remarks to a close now, Ms Slater.
Lorna Slater Green
We can invest in public services. We can make Scotland a fairer and greener country when it is an independent country. 15:15
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (LD) LD
Today’s debate has turned into the usual constitutional battle, as these things do, but the Parliament needs to have an honest and grown-up conversation abou...