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Committee

Education, Children and Young People Committee 07 May 2025

07 May 2025 · S6 · Education, Children and Young People Committee
Item of business
Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Kerr, Stephen Con Central Scotland Watch on SPTV

John Mason makes a good point. The issue is not unique to this situation. Whenever there is an evaluation or assessment of a workplace, behaviours would have to be evidenced that demonstrate that certain situations are prevailing. It is not just about opinion. It would be evidenced by, as I say, demonstrated behaviours and reported incidents, because we need to listen to our teachers.

I have a concern, which I will come back to later, that our teachers feel a little beaten down and do not feel sufficiently confident in their own voice to speak up for themselves. The EIS has repeatedly raised concerns about the nature of inspections and how they might lead to the undermining of teacher professionalism, with members reporting that the process is often stressful, unpredictable and poorly aligned with educational priorities.

Amendment 304 is an attempt to address that by asserting that inspections engage with and give weight to the views and professional expertise of educators. It puts their voice at the centre of the inspection. That does not mean that the inspectors must accept every view uncritically, as John Mason says. It means that they must recognise that teaching is a profession, and that teachers are not merely implementers of policy but reflective practitioners with insight, experience and skill. To go back to my earlier points about school violence, we need to listen more carefully, and directly, to our teachers.

I will move my remarks along, as I can tell that I am testing the patience of the committee, but these are important considerations.

A growing proportion of newly qualified teachers are being placed on temporary or short-term contracts. I understand the business logic behind that, but it is leading to instability in staffing and less consistency for learners. That lack of permanence and continuity undermines a school’s ability to establish and maintain a strong culture of discipline and respect. Younger, more inexperienced staff with limited classroom management experience and minimal job security are being asked to manage increasingly complex behaviours in settings with reduced staffing, fewer classroom assistants and rising levels of need.

It is vital that inspections ensure that not only pupils but teaching professionals are safe and looked after, which is why I have included provision for that in amendment 304. For an inspection to be truly effective, it must assess whether the school has all the skills, expertise and personnel that it needs in order to be successful. There is no point in a school’s having first-class facilities without the correct—or enough—personnel to utilise those.

Amendment 304 requires inspectors to take account of

“the type of employment contract held by teachers and staff in the establishment”

and

“the number of teachers in the establishment who ... are completing probationary service, or ... are newly qualified teachers, having completed their probationary service no more than 5 years before the date of the inspection”.

That is essential to understanding the culture and diversity of experience in a school. If there is no diversity of experience, an establishment is less likely to succeed. We must take that into account when inspecting schools.

Putting all those elements together, including my catch-all at the end of amendment 304, we have a coherent framework that aligns inspection with the broader values and goals of Scottish education: equity, excellence, wellbeing, professionalism and learner empowerment. Without such alignment, inspection risks becoming a hindrance rather than a help. With the elements that I have described, inspection can become a key driver of change and improvement.

I know that I have gone on a bit, but, as members can probably tell, I feel passionately about the opportunity to transform the culture in our schools that having an independent chief inspector will bring.

It is about not just changing how we inspect our schools, but the purpose of inspection. It is about saying that what matters most in Scottish education is not just that our learners achieve, but that they thrive, progress and are taught by professionals who are trusted and respected. That is what amendment 304 enshrines. It describes the standard that is worthy of being aspired to. I therefore commend amendment 304 to the committee.

Some of you will be thinking that I am making up for my lack of attendance last Wednesday night, but I genuinely believe in the elements of amendment 304 and I lay it before the committee for your consideration.

In the same item of business

The Convener Con
Good evening, and welcome back. Agenda item 3 is the continuation of our stage 2 consideration of the Education (Scotland) Bill. I welcome back the cabinet s...
The Convener Con
Amendment 84, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 304, 85, 313, 86 and 111. I point out that amendment 85 is pre-empted by amend...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I thank Ms Duncan-Glancy and Mr Kerr for their amendments. I am pleased to see that we agree on the value of setting out the purposes of inspection in the bi...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I understand the cabinet secretary’s point about the inclusion in my amendment of a purpose that relates to improvement, but does she recognise that the Muir...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I recognise what Ms Duncan-Glancy is saying, and I would be keen to work with her on that aspect ahead of stage 3. There is much common ground in that area t...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I wish to say some words about why I felt the need to lodge amendment 304 in the first place. I think that many members will sympathise with the reasoning as...
John Mason Ind
Will the member take an intervention?
Stephen Kerr Con
Of course.
John Mason Ind
Would the type of employment contract not be fairly standard throughout a number of establishments? Would there not be a lot of repetition in that regard?
Stephen Kerr Con
I imagine that John Mason has a point, but, in effect, he makes my point for me, because it has now become a feature of teacher employment that a large numbe...
Jackie Dunbar SNP
Will the issues that you are raising tonight not be dealt with tomorrow when the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills gives a statement to the chamber?...
Stephen Kerr Con
I am sure that they will feature in the cabinet secretary’s statement and that there will be questions along those lines, but we are talking about the Educat...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I remind the committee and those watching of my declaration of interests. Stephen Kerr highlights a number of points that, to a great extent, fall within th...
Stephen Kerr Con
Amendment 304 refers to the complement of staff available to meet needs. An issue that comes up quite frequently—which I know Martin Whitfield will be aware ...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am listening to the member develop his points, and I do not deny the importance of all the issues that he is highlighting in relation to amendment 304. How...
Stephen Kerr Con
I understand—or I think that I understand—the cabinet secretary’s point. I am not seeking, through amendment 304, to restrict an inspector’s ability to inspe...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
We broadly agree on the need to improve the morale and wellbeing of teachers and staff, but I am conscious of how that requirement would interact with the fa...
Stephen Kerr Con
I see the role of the inspector as speaking truth to power. I mentioned Government and Parliament, but any stakeholders, including local authorities and teac...
John Mason Ind
Stephen Kerr mentions the reality that the inspector might find. Can that be objectively measured, and how would the inspector do that? They might speak to t...
Stephen Kerr Con
John Mason makes a good point. The issue is not unique to this situation. Whenever there is an evaluation or assessment of a workplace, behaviours would have...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Good evening to the cabinet secretary, officials and others. I have listened carefully to the debate that we have had so far. I will go through amendment 313...
The Convener Con
I call the cabinet secretary to wind up and to press or withdraw amendment 84.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
In the stage 1 report, the committee recommended that a statement on the purposes of inspection should be included in the bill. I agree on the value of setti...
The Convener Con
Amendment 305, in the name of Stephen Kerr, is grouped with amendments 306, 309, 310 and 312. I point out that amendments 309, 310 and 312 are pre-empted by ...
Stephen Kerr Con
Amendments 305, 306 and 310 address the crucial matter of the frequency of school inspections. The amendments that I have lodged in the group all stem from o...
John Mason Ind
On the risk-based approach, it is common for auditors in business and in all sorts of areas of life to focus more on risky subjects than on less risky ones. ...
Stephen Kerr Con
I will come to the frequency that I am proposing in a second. In answer to the specific issue that John Mason has raised, I understand the importance of risk...
John Mason Ind
I asked the member about the frequency of inspections. I stand to be corrected, but my understanding is that there are about 250 inspections a year now and t...
Stephen Kerr Con
That is a fair point and I accept it as such. There is a famous old adage that, if you think education is expensive, try ignorance. If there is a singular n...
George Adam SNP
Given the figures brought up by my colleague John Mason—the fact that there could be 800 inspections a year—you run the risk of creating an administrative bu...