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Committee

Education, Children and Young People Committee 07 May 2025

07 May 2025 · S6 · Education, Children and Young People Committee
Item of business
Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
Kerr, Stephen Con Central Scotland Watch on SPTV

I imagine that John Mason has a point, but, in effect, he makes my point for me, because it has now become a feature of teacher employment that a large number of teachers have no permanent employment contract. As I will come on to, that creates all kinds of problems for those professionals—they are professionals—who cannot get on with the rest of their lives. They cannot establish themselves financially, and they cannot apply for certain products that might require them to have a permanent position of employment.

I understand why John Mason offers his intervention, but my amendment is grounded in the experiences of teachers and covers an issue that we should address.

Amendment 304 also provides that an inspection must cover

“the number of teachers in the establishment who ... are completing probationary service, or ... are newly qualified teachers, having completed their probationary service no more than 5 years before the date of the inspection”.

Those issues have been well covered in the chamber and elsewhere.

Finally, the amendment states:

“such other matters as the Chief Inspector considers appropriate.”

I am not seeking to be overly prescriptive, which is why that line in the amendment is included. I want the chief inspector to be fully independent and completely free to make observations and reports in relation to the broad remit that they will have in carrying out their function.

The first pillar of amendment 304 is

“the implementation and effectiveness of discipline policies”.

I make no apology for raising the rising incidence of violence and disruption in Scottish schools, which is affecting staff and students. The Scottish media has recently reported a disturbing surge in classroom violence, including assaults on teachers, support staff and even other pupils. There are such headlines in all our news outlets—The Courier, the Daily Record and BBC Scotland all speak of a discipline crisis in schools, with staff describing their daily exposure to aggression and fear.

It is therefore vital that the implementation and effectiveness of discipline policies are monitored and that—this is the critical point—good practice is shared and concerns are highlighted and remedied. I think that we all agree on the point, which I made in our earlier debate, that school leadership is a critical factor in the learning environment, particularly for discipline. It is therefore a crucial observation that school discipline is contingent on the quality of the learning environment, which is the second part of amendment 304, so it ought to be at the forefront of consideration during an inspection.

Education is not only about academic performance; it is about the development of healthy and resilient young people. That is what the curriculum for excellence and the pillars are all about. Concerns arise about whether the learning environment is dealing with the whole person, rather than just one aspect. I acknowledge that that is the danger of league tables, which highlight one aspect of a school’s performance, perhaps without any recognition or cognisance of the other issues that create a holistic learning environment.

The recent mental health crisis among young people has brought the issue into stark relief. Multiple reports across all forms of media have highlighted increased numbers of referrals to child and adolescent mental health services, long waiting times for mental health support and a growing number of pupils disengaging from school altogether. We have frequently discussed non-attendance at school, which is at critical levels. School staff who are already overstretched are often the first responders to mental distress, but they are rarely recognised or supported in that role. Those factors all contribute to the learning environment.

An inspection framework that ignores wellbeing is therefore out of step with the reality in schools and the priorities, as I understand them, of Scottish Government policy, including the national performance framework. By including wellbeing explicitly in the inspection criteria, amendment 304 will ensure that we evaluate not just what is taught but how young people experience their education. Are they safe? Are they supported? Are they thriving?

In the same item of business

The Convener Con
Good evening, and welcome back. Agenda item 3 is the continuation of our stage 2 consideration of the Education (Scotland) Bill. I welcome back the cabinet s...
The Convener Con
Amendment 84, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 304, 85, 313, 86 and 111. I point out that amendment 85 is pre-empted by amend...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I thank Ms Duncan-Glancy and Mr Kerr for their amendments. I am pleased to see that we agree on the value of setting out the purposes of inspection in the bi...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I understand the cabinet secretary’s point about the inclusion in my amendment of a purpose that relates to improvement, but does she recognise that the Muir...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I recognise what Ms Duncan-Glancy is saying, and I would be keen to work with her on that aspect ahead of stage 3. There is much common ground in that area t...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I wish to say some words about why I felt the need to lodge amendment 304 in the first place. I think that many members will sympathise with the reasoning as...
John Mason Ind
Will the member take an intervention?
Stephen Kerr Con
Of course.
John Mason Ind
Would the type of employment contract not be fairly standard throughout a number of establishments? Would there not be a lot of repetition in that regard?
Stephen Kerr Con
I imagine that John Mason has a point, but, in effect, he makes my point for me, because it has now become a feature of teacher employment that a large numbe...
Jackie Dunbar SNP
Will the issues that you are raising tonight not be dealt with tomorrow when the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills gives a statement to the chamber?...
Stephen Kerr Con
I am sure that they will feature in the cabinet secretary’s statement and that there will be questions along those lines, but we are talking about the Educat...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I remind the committee and those watching of my declaration of interests. Stephen Kerr highlights a number of points that, to a great extent, fall within th...
Stephen Kerr Con
Amendment 304 refers to the complement of staff available to meet needs. An issue that comes up quite frequently—which I know Martin Whitfield will be aware ...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am listening to the member develop his points, and I do not deny the importance of all the issues that he is highlighting in relation to amendment 304. How...
Stephen Kerr Con
I understand—or I think that I understand—the cabinet secretary’s point. I am not seeking, through amendment 304, to restrict an inspector’s ability to inspe...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
We broadly agree on the need to improve the morale and wellbeing of teachers and staff, but I am conscious of how that requirement would interact with the fa...
Stephen Kerr Con
I see the role of the inspector as speaking truth to power. I mentioned Government and Parliament, but any stakeholders, including local authorities and teac...
John Mason Ind
Stephen Kerr mentions the reality that the inspector might find. Can that be objectively measured, and how would the inspector do that? They might speak to t...
Stephen Kerr Con
John Mason makes a good point. The issue is not unique to this situation. Whenever there is an evaluation or assessment of a workplace, behaviours would have...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Good evening to the cabinet secretary, officials and others. I have listened carefully to the debate that we have had so far. I will go through amendment 313...
The Convener Con
I call the cabinet secretary to wind up and to press or withdraw amendment 84.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
In the stage 1 report, the committee recommended that a statement on the purposes of inspection should be included in the bill. I agree on the value of setti...
The Convener Con
Amendment 305, in the name of Stephen Kerr, is grouped with amendments 306, 309, 310 and 312. I point out that amendments 309, 310 and 312 are pre-empted by ...
Stephen Kerr Con
Amendments 305, 306 and 310 address the crucial matter of the frequency of school inspections. The amendments that I have lodged in the group all stem from o...
John Mason Ind
On the risk-based approach, it is common for auditors in business and in all sorts of areas of life to focus more on risky subjects than on less risky ones. ...
Stephen Kerr Con
I will come to the frequency that I am proposing in a second. In answer to the specific issue that John Mason has raised, I understand the importance of risk...
John Mason Ind
I asked the member about the frequency of inspections. I stand to be corrected, but my understanding is that there are about 250 inspections a year now and t...
Stephen Kerr Con
That is a fair point and I accept it as such. There is a famous old adage that, if you think education is expensive, try ignorance. If there is a singular n...
George Adam SNP
Given the figures brought up by my colleague John Mason—the fact that there could be 800 inspections a year—you run the risk of creating an administrative bu...