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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 April 2025

01 Apr 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Learning Disability, Autism and Neurodivergence Bill

I thank my friend and colleague Daniel Johnson for continuing to shine a light on this issue. The fact that we need to continue to shine that light should bring shame on us all.

It had not been my intention to speak in the debate; instead, I wanted to listen to those speaking today. However, when I was speaking to some of the autism campaigners, I asked their permission to talk about some of the issues that I want to raise, and they gave it to me.

Last week, I met representatives from the Royal College of Psychiatrists and heard about its report. Shockingly, there was, between 2019 and 2021, a rise of up to 800 per cent in referrals for ADHD. At the same time, we have a reduced psychology sector in which, as Jackie Baillie has said, people are hitting burnout and moving to the private sector to get a work-life balance.

I was struck by Elena Whitham’s point about the need for a whole-system, holistic approach, and I will be focusing some of my speech on the societal approach in education. I might well bore members with it, but I will never tire of talking about how we must give kids outlets to express themselves. I raised with the autism campaigners the withdrawal of the ability to be physically active or involved in music, drama or art and how the impact of that on those who are neurodivergent can be much more significant.

In that respect, I remember a couple of issues that my constituents raised with me. In one case, there were a couple of children who loved to do art. They could remain in the mainstream as long as they had quiet time to themselves to do their art. The problems started after that was withdrawn, because they had no outlet for their thoughts and processes.

As I have said before in the chamber, one of the most fulfilling times in my coaching career was when I worked with a couple of children with autism and with foetal alcohol spectrum disorder. It was extraordinarily fulfilling to be involved in the impact that that routine had on their lives.

We need to consider how we structure our education system. Despite what the minister and the Government might say, there is no question but that there has been a reduction in children’s ability to participate in such outlets in schools and communities. When I spoke to the autism campaigners, I learned that that has a more profound impact on people with neurodivergent conditions. We need to consider a whole-system approach and how we ensure that such children can interact with, take part in and be a part of community and society.

I had not thought about getting to my feet in this debate, but I felt compelled to do so. Once again, I thank Daniel Johnson for compelling me with his very powerful speech. We need to make a societal change in this matter across all the portfolios that we look after in the Parliament.

18:02  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-16644, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on the learning disabilities, autism and neurodi...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I thank those members who signed my motion to enable the debate to happen. It is a very important debate, because it is difficult to overstate the level of f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Before we move to the open debate, I advise members that the debate is heavily oversubscribed, which will come as a surprise to nobody. I will therefore requ...
Karen Adam (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate my colleague Daniel Johnson on securing this members’ business debate, and I thank him for his continued openness on this issue. I, too, feel ...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing the debate to the chamber. Even during my campaign to be elected back in 2016, it was clear that more support was needed...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I commend my colleague Daniel Johnson for securing this members’ business debate, and I thank him and Karen Adam for their openness in talking about their ne...
Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) SNP
I, too, thank Daniel Johnson for securing the debate, which enables us to discuss the implications of not introducing a learning disability, autism and neuro...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing the debate to the chamber and for sharing his personal experience, because that really does matter. I also thank organisa...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
My friend Pam Duncan-Glancy is making a very compelling case. Does she agree that, in addition to the learning disability health checks, issues such as the “...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I thank the member for that intervention, and I whole-heartedly agree that people with learning disabilities and others will absolutely feel entirely failed....
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Michael has spent more than 15 years in hospital. He is autistic with a severe learning disability. He finds routine comforting, and unexpected changes cause...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, thank Daniel Johnson for bringing this very important issue to the chamber. I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives on this sub...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Before I call the next speaker in the open debate, I am minded, given the number of colleagues who still wish to participate, to accept a motion without noti...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing this important debate to the chamber. In working with other members across the parties, he has been a real champion in th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Stephanie Callaghan, who joins us remotely. I gather that we are having slight issues with Ms Callaghan’s camera, so I will go first to Stephen Kerr,...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Daniel Johnson gave a powerful and compelling speech, and a number of other members have given similarly compelling speeches. To be frank, it is to the shame...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Mr Kerr. I now call Stephanie Callaghan. We might still have issues with the visuals, but I hope that the audio is functioning. After that, we wil...
Stephanie Callaghan (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I wish that you had a better photograph of me on the screen, but we will let that pass. Again, I thank Daniel Johnson for brin...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank my good friend Daniel Johnson for bringing the debate to light. Reflecting ahead of it, I was conscious of the great range of my work as an MSP that...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank my friend and colleague Daniel Johnson for continuing to shine a light on this issue. The fact that we need to continue to shine that light should br...
The Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport (Maree Todd) SNP
I am grateful to Daniel Johnson for lodging the motion and allowing us the opportunity to discuss an important topic. I am also grateful to the other members...
Daniel Johnson Lab
The minister has corrected the motion, but can I just correct her? We are talking about ASN specialist teachers. Will she acknowledge that the number of spec...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back, minister.
Maree Todd SNP
As many of the people with whom we have engaged on the LDAN bill are well aware, we are continuing to make progress on the bill. As I have said, we will publ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
The minister is talking about steps that the Government is taking to improve services, but the services in question have been entirely withdrawn in a number ...
Maree Todd SNP
My officials have reached out to all the health board areas that have made such decisions. As I understand it, a process of redesign is under way, because th...
Michael Marra Lab
Will the minister give way?
Maree Todd SNP
I am sorry, but I really would like to progress. I have a number of issues that I want to get round to, including some of the issues that Mr Marra raised. W...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Briefly, minister.
Maree Todd SNP
Health checks, which are being delivered to thousands of people, are already yielding positive results in identifying unmet health needs and supporting acces...