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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 April 2025

01 Apr 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Learning Disability, Autism and Neurodivergence Bill
Callaghan, Stephanie SNP Uddingston and Bellshill Watch on SPTV

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I wish that you had a better photograph of me on the screen, but we will let that pass.

Again, I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing to the chamber today’s debate on the learning disabilities, autism and neurodivergence bill, which is often referred to as the LDAN bill, and for his wider dedication to highlighting neurodiversity more generally.

Although I recognise the frustration expressed in today’s motion and the disappointment that our LDAN bill was not announced in the most recent programme for government—I will come back to that—I also want to highlight the Scottish Government’s efforts to ensure that the legislation reflects the voices of those with lived experience. Those quiet voices have always been there, but the breadth of the Scottish Government consultation has inspired our learning disability and neurodiversity communities to speak up and seize the opportunity to contribute and make themselves heard.

With more than 900 responses from individuals, families and stakeholders, we have dared people to hope for a better future, and we absolutely must follow through. We cannot let them down. Their valuable insight has reinforced not only the necessity of the bill but the urgency of the change that it seeks to bring. The LDAN bill is sorely needed, and it has been deeply disheartening for the autism community and all those who have worked tirelessly for its progress that it is not in the programme for government. I share their disappointment.

Although I appreciate that the bill is developing in an evolving landscape alongside the proposed human rights bill and the Care Reform (Scotland) Bill, the focus should remain on creating a rights-based approach that, while linked, is also independent. I would therefore appreciate a clear and strong commitment from the minister today that we will honour our commitment and be clear on when the draft bill will be published.

As many here already know, I mother autistic children, so the issue is deeply personal to me. Many other members of the Scottish Parliament have also touched on how they are directly affected. It is all around us and it permeates our families, our friendships and our communities.

In thinking about young people, I note that, although every child has the right to full-time education, autistic students face overwhelming inequalities. There are challenges with specialist support and underreported use of part-time timetables, and I would appreciate some clarity on those from the minister today. I am interested in what proportion of autistic pupils receive the full-time education that they are entitled to, how accurate the data is that we hold on part-time timetables, and whether that is comparable across Scottish local authorities. Does the minister believe there is a need for greater transparency around the recording of part-time timetables? Is work being done or planned to assess the impact of part-time education on young people’s achievements and on family wellbeing and finances? That is important, because, as we have heard, when an autistic person struggles, their entire family feels the weight of that struggle.

Advocacy should not be just a crisis intervention; it is a vital form of reablement that can prevent further hardship. When families receive expertise and services that are tailored to their needs, the impact is life changing and, ultimately, more cost effective than dealing with the consequences of inadequate support.

A key aspect of the LDAN bill was the proposal to introduce an LDAN commissioner, which is well supported by the consultation feedback. They would drive accountability, champion rights and inspire cultural change. If the minister has not already done so, I encourage her to get in touch with Alan Thompson, the Welsh commissioner for learning disability, perhaps to discuss any reduction in strain on the NHS and mental health services and how the measure has contributed to closing the poverty gap.

Neurodivergent and autistic people are an investment, not a cost. They make our world more innovative, creative and compassionate, and they open doors that lead to a richer, stronger society. I hope the minister can assure us today that the LDAN community can expect not a lap dog but a guard dog with real teeth and a fierce ambition for their future.

17:53  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-16644, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on the learning disabilities, autism and neurodi...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I thank those members who signed my motion to enable the debate to happen. It is a very important debate, because it is difficult to overstate the level of f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Before we move to the open debate, I advise members that the debate is heavily oversubscribed, which will come as a surprise to nobody. I will therefore requ...
Karen Adam (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate my colleague Daniel Johnson on securing this members’ business debate, and I thank him for his continued openness on this issue. I, too, feel ...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing the debate to the chamber. Even during my campaign to be elected back in 2016, it was clear that more support was needed...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I commend my colleague Daniel Johnson for securing this members’ business debate, and I thank him and Karen Adam for their openness in talking about their ne...
Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) SNP
I, too, thank Daniel Johnson for securing the debate, which enables us to discuss the implications of not introducing a learning disability, autism and neuro...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing the debate to the chamber and for sharing his personal experience, because that really does matter. I also thank organisa...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
My friend Pam Duncan-Glancy is making a very compelling case. Does she agree that, in addition to the learning disability health checks, issues such as the “...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I thank the member for that intervention, and I whole-heartedly agree that people with learning disabilities and others will absolutely feel entirely failed....
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Michael has spent more than 15 years in hospital. He is autistic with a severe learning disability. He finds routine comforting, and unexpected changes cause...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, thank Daniel Johnson for bringing this very important issue to the chamber. I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives on this sub...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Before I call the next speaker in the open debate, I am minded, given the number of colleagues who still wish to participate, to accept a motion without noti...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing this important debate to the chamber. In working with other members across the parties, he has been a real champion in th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Stephanie Callaghan, who joins us remotely. I gather that we are having slight issues with Ms Callaghan’s camera, so I will go first to Stephen Kerr,...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Daniel Johnson gave a powerful and compelling speech, and a number of other members have given similarly compelling speeches. To be frank, it is to the shame...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Mr Kerr. I now call Stephanie Callaghan. We might still have issues with the visuals, but I hope that the audio is functioning. After that, we wil...
Stephanie Callaghan (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I wish that you had a better photograph of me on the screen, but we will let that pass. Again, I thank Daniel Johnson for brin...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank my good friend Daniel Johnson for bringing the debate to light. Reflecting ahead of it, I was conscious of the great range of my work as an MSP that...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank my friend and colleague Daniel Johnson for continuing to shine a light on this issue. The fact that we need to continue to shine that light should br...
The Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport (Maree Todd) SNP
I am grateful to Daniel Johnson for lodging the motion and allowing us the opportunity to discuss an important topic. I am also grateful to the other members...
Daniel Johnson Lab
The minister has corrected the motion, but can I just correct her? We are talking about ASN specialist teachers. Will she acknowledge that the number of spec...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back, minister.
Maree Todd SNP
As many of the people with whom we have engaged on the LDAN bill are well aware, we are continuing to make progress on the bill. As I have said, we will publ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
The minister is talking about steps that the Government is taking to improve services, but the services in question have been entirely withdrawn in a number ...
Maree Todd SNP
My officials have reached out to all the health board areas that have made such decisions. As I understand it, a process of redesign is under way, because th...
Michael Marra Lab
Will the minister give way?
Maree Todd SNP
I am sorry, but I really would like to progress. I have a number of issues that I want to get round to, including some of the issues that Mr Marra raised. W...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Briefly, minister.
Maree Todd SNP
Health checks, which are being delivered to thousands of people, are already yielding positive results in identifying unmet health needs and supporting acces...