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Committee

Economy and Fair Work Committee 26 June 2025

26 Jun 2025 · S6 · Economy and Fair Work Committee
Item of business
Alexander Dennis
Paul Davies Watch on SPTV

Historically, UK market registrations were between 2,500 and 3,000 buses per annum. Before the move to low-emission vehicles only, the competitive landscape was very different. During the pandemic, registration numbers went as low as 1,100 to 1,200 buses. As context for that, we delivered 1,400 buses to the market in 2024, and we have an annual capacity across our factories of 1,600 buses.

We expected 2025 to be a difficult year, because of the way in which the funding rounds for zero-emission buses had played out. We knew that it would be a tougher year than 2024, and it has indeed become harder to remain a financially viable and sustainable business in 2025. Even if we assume that the market stays at around 3,000 buses and demand continues to be healthy, because of commitments to decarbonisation and having zero-emission fleets by 2030, 2035 or whenever, it is still the case that, if our regular market demand is now smaller—say, 30-something per cent rather than the 50 or 60 per cent that it was historically—we cannot afford to sustain two factories. It comes back to the size of the business, our ability to operate in one factory rather than two and staying financially viable.

In the same item of business

The Convener Lab
Our next item of business is an evidence-taking session with the management of bus manufacturer Alexander Dennis. On 11 June, Alexander Dennis announced a co...
Paul Davies (Alexander Dennis)
The Scotland site’s capacity is about 300 to 400 buses a year. The Government has asked us what it would take to postpone the consultation and stop the proce...
The Convener Lab
What is the number?
Paul Davies
It is about 70 to 100 buses this year. From our perspective, though, there are wider issues. Obviously, there has been a conversation about a potential furlo...
The Convener Lab
But the 2022 act covers the whole of the UK, including Scarborough. I am trying to specifically understand what you would require in the next few months to e...
Paul Davies
We do not have sufficient volume in our order book to sustain two manufacturing sites in the UK, which is why we are looking at consolidation activity.
The Convener Lab
How many more would you need next year to be able to run both sites?
Paul Davies
In the region of 300 to 400.
The Convener Lab
And roughly how many orders do you have for next year?
Paul Davies
Very few.
The Convener Lab
Okay. If you were able to secure those orders—between 70 and 100 this year, say, and 300 next year—would you give an absolute guarantee that production would...
Paul Davies
I would then make a further point about how we bridge the gap in our order book that is coming in the summer, and our being able to build bodies in Scotland ...
The Convener Lab
We will come to the very specific issues about the landscape in a second, but the fact is that those conversations will not result in a solution in the next ...
Paul Davies
There are wider implications for us. Over the past few years, we have spent a lot of money on retaining skills and capacity in Scotland—for example, we have ...
The Convener Lab
You seem to be suggesting that, even if you got extra orders, you would consolidate anyway.
Paul Davies
Our message to the Government has been that a furlough scheme has to be considered as part of a bigger picture, given some of the other issues that we have b...
The Convener Lab
A scheme would allow conversations to continue, because, even with the best will in the world, changes to some of those things might take a bit of time—they ...
Paul Davies
It is absolutely not a done deal—it is a consultation process. We are very grateful for the active engagement that we have had from both Governments and othe...
The Convener Lab
I come back to the point that a lot of those changes are not going to happen in 45 days. Might a commitment to having those wider discussions about the longe...
Debbie McCreath (Alexander Dennis)
To add to Paul Davies’s point, I would say that our ask of the Government at this time has been about the short-term solution. We have split the solutions in...
The Convener Lab
Okay. That is a wee bit clearer. However, you still require a minimum number of orders. Are you saying that an extra 70 for the rest of this year and 300 nex...
Debbie McCreath
Yes.
Michelle Thomson (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
I have a couple of wee questions. First, it seems as if you are saying that, even if you reach the magical number of orders, you still have to get them sold,...
Paul Davies
Yes.
Michelle Thomson SNP
Given the business’s numbers and the financial flows that it has seen over the past few years—and well before Covid—it appears that there was a trigger for t...
Paul Davies
Historically, UK market registrations were between 2,500 and 3,000 buses per annum. Before the move to low-emission vehicles only, the competitive landscape ...
Michelle Thomson SNP
You have again articulated the position as it has progressed over a number of years. We can see that, but it looks as if the trigger has been the refinancing...
Paul Davies
No. Our proposal has been entirely led by me and the UK executive team, although it will go through the executive of NFI Group, which is our parent company, ...
Michelle Thomson SNP
Okay. Thank you.
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
Good morning. Following on from those questions, am I right in saying that you mostly only produce buses to order?