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Committee

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee 25 June 2025

25 Jun 2025 · S6 · Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee
Item of business
Continued Petitions
Rape Charges (Under-16s) (PE2064)
Alistair Hogg Watch on SPTV

Of course. I know that you raised other issues, Mr Carlaw, but on support, protection and information for victims, a lot of these issues were discussed during the passage of the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill, which became an act in 2024; there was recognition of a lot of the issues that you have described.

I am certainly aware of that particular victim’s views, which you expressed, about the incredibly traumatic incident that they suffered. It is a familiar narrative that there is a perception that the child who has been harmed—it is often a child who has been harmed by another child—feels that they have not been provided with the same level of support as the child who caused the harm. That is a perception: it might not in fact be the case—but it might be. What is important, however, is that that is the perception, and it needs to change. That has been recognised through a number of different routes. The 2024 act has in place provisions that should at least begin to go some way to addressing those concerns.

At the moment, there is a limit to how much information can be shared when a child is referred to the children’s reporter and to the children’s hearings system. That is, of course, because of the rights of a child to privacy and confidentiality, which have to be balanced against the rights of the victim and their family to know what is happening. At the moment, the amount of information that can be shared is prescribed in statute, and it is very restricted. We can say only what our decision is and what the decision of the hearing is, without any further detail. The 2024 act broadens how much information can be shared and it has a specific focus on safety and risk planning around the victim. I believe that it also places a duty on the Scottish Government to ensure that supports are in place for victims. It will be setting up what is referred to as a single point of contact service for victims, where they can be provided with a broad suite of information to help them to understand what is happening in relation to the child who has caused the harm, and it will either provide or, at least, signpost to the provision of therapeutic services that might be required to deal with the trauma that they have suffered.

That is all in place and there are currently lots of discussions, workshops and design discovery phases going on to scope and design what that service might look like. There is also work beginning on quite complex new provisions around information sharing—when information can be provided and the circumstances in which it is appropriate to do so.

I would add that we have almost completed some research of our own, which we commenced following parliamentary debate during the passage of Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill. It is likely to report in August of this year. It is looking at what will help and support the victims of children who cause harm and, no doubt, will contain some recommendations on that. All of that will inform what happens next.

I add a word of support for the Lord Advocate because, as she says, she has really championed the cause of victims and taken it to a different level. That has been principally through the vehicle of the victims task force, which she jointly chairs with the cabinet secretary and which the Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration is part of.

You referred to the fact that these petitions are from 2022, so a lot of action has been taken since that time.

In the same item of business

The Convener Con
Our specific reason for having this additional committee meeting is to take evidence on youth crime, and we have two panels with whom we hope to be able to e...
Maurice Golden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, welcome the panel to the meeting. Can you outline the approach that is taken when serious violent or sexual offences committed by children under the ...
Alistair Hogg (Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration)
I am happy to start, if that is okay. Good morning, committee. I guess I should start by referring to the Lord Advocate’s guidelines. Obviously, the Lord Ad...
Maurice Golden Con
Yes, perhaps. However, I wonder whether we can hear from the Lord Advocate. I am aware, too, of the recent statement of prosecution policy, Lord Advocate, so...
The Lord Advocate (Rt Hon Dorothy Bain KC)
With regard to the cases that are reported by the police to the Crown Office, the police operate under guidelines that I have issued to determine whether the...
Maurice Golden Con
Lord Advocate, it strikes me that the presumption against prosecution in these cases is perhaps out of kilter with public opinion. After all, the scope of wh...
The Lord Advocate
It is a rebuttable presumption. As I have said, the more serious the offence, the greater the likelihood of a prosecution, and the category of cases that you...
Maurice Golden Con
But the presumption is that that would happen only in the most extreme examples, and the scope in that respect is seriously tight. Is that the case?
The Lord Advocate
No, I do not think that we could set such a test with regard to the most serious examples. When we considered the issue that was raised of decisions to diver...
Maurice Golden Con
With regard to diversion from prosecution, what support is available under compulsory supervision orders? Are there sufficient resources across the whole of ...
The Lord Advocate
On the question of what happens with a child under a compulsory supervision order who is referred to the children’s reporter for an allegation of rape, perha...
Maurice Golden Con
I might come back to you on that because, in setting the policy, you will still be required to know what happens on the other side, even though that is not w...
The Lord Advocate
Of course.
Maurice Golden Con
Mr Hogg?
Alistair Hogg
The collaboration between our two organisations is absolutely comprehensive. In every situation in which there is a joint report, information is exchanged an...
Maurice Golden Con
Thank you.
The Convener Con
I want to turn the conversation around to the victims. I should say that one thing has changed over the lifetime of this Parliament—well, actually, two thing...
The Lord Advocate
There are a number of aspects to your question, Mr Carlaw, and I hope that I can cover them in my response. I understand your sense of profound change in th...
The Convener Con
I am grateful for your expression of empathy with the victims and the efforts that you have been making to progress changes. On victims, you referred to the...
The Lord Advocate
Given what you have described to me, it sounds as if the events that happened to that child were reported to the police. The police have published guidelines...
Alistair Hogg
Of course. I know that you raised other issues, Mr Carlaw, but on support, protection and information for victims, a lot of these issues were discussed durin...
The Convener Con
The earliest petition was submitted in 2022, but the evidence that we took subsequently was to illustrate the issues raised by the petitions rather than abou...
The Lord Advocate
I think that Ms Ross knows about the case that you were talking about, Mr Carlaw, and she would be able to fill in the gap with information that I was unawar...
The Convener Con
That would be helpful, as long as we keep it all very anonymised, because we are trying to talk in general terms without identifying anybody.
The Lord Advocate
It might just help to hear what happened, without naming individuals.
Stephanie Ross (Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service)
Good morning. Thank you, Lord Advocate. I will try to just fill in the gaps, if that would be helpful. I am familiar with the circumstances of the particular...
The Lord Advocate
There was a conviction.
Stephanie Ross
There was a conviction.
The Convener Con
Thank you very much. When we began, I was struck that, in response to Mr Golden, you made the reasonable point that prosecution is just one part of the way i...
The Lord Advocate
That is a very good point. There are multiple ways that that could be answered. I believe that the police service of Scotland is fundamentally committed to t...