Committee
Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee 25 June 2025
25 Jun 2025 · S6 · Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee
Item of business
Continued Petitions
Rape Charges (Under-16s) (PE2064)
Lord Advocate, it strikes me that the presumption against prosecution in these cases is perhaps out of kilter with public opinion. After all, the scope of what we are discussing is serious violent or sexual offences. My understanding of the whole-system approach is that it focuses on early interventions being made at the first sign of difficulty, and I think that there is a logic to that, but when it comes to the most serious cases of violence and sexual offending, the crisis point has probably been reached already and therefore any consideration that is given should happen in that context. What are your thoughts on that?
09:30In the same item of business
The Convener
Con
Our specific reason for having this additional committee meeting is to take evidence on youth crime, and we have two panels with whom we hope to be able to e...
Maurice Golden (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I, too, welcome the panel to the meeting. Can you outline the approach that is taken when serious violent or sexual offences committed by children under the ...
Alistair Hogg (Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration)
I am happy to start, if that is okay. Good morning, committee. I guess I should start by referring to the Lord Advocate’s guidelines. Obviously, the Lord Ad...
Maurice Golden
Con
Yes, perhaps. However, I wonder whether we can hear from the Lord Advocate. I am aware, too, of the recent statement of prosecution policy, Lord Advocate, so...
The Lord Advocate (Rt Hon Dorothy Bain KC)
With regard to the cases that are reported by the police to the Crown Office, the police operate under guidelines that I have issued to determine whether the...
Maurice Golden
Con
Lord Advocate, it strikes me that the presumption against prosecution in these cases is perhaps out of kilter with public opinion. After all, the scope of wh...
The Lord Advocate
It is a rebuttable presumption. As I have said, the more serious the offence, the greater the likelihood of a prosecution, and the category of cases that you...
Maurice Golden
Con
But the presumption is that that would happen only in the most extreme examples, and the scope in that respect is seriously tight. Is that the case?
The Lord Advocate
No, I do not think that we could set such a test with regard to the most serious examples. When we considered the issue that was raised of decisions to diver...
Maurice Golden
Con
With regard to diversion from prosecution, what support is available under compulsory supervision orders? Are there sufficient resources across the whole of ...
The Lord Advocate
On the question of what happens with a child under a compulsory supervision order who is referred to the children’s reporter for an allegation of rape, perha...
Maurice Golden
Con
I might come back to you on that because, in setting the policy, you will still be required to know what happens on the other side, even though that is not w...
The Lord Advocate
Of course.
Maurice Golden
Con
Mr Hogg?
Alistair Hogg
The collaboration between our two organisations is absolutely comprehensive. In every situation in which there is a joint report, information is exchanged an...
Maurice Golden
Con
Thank you.
The Convener
Con
I want to turn the conversation around to the victims. I should say that one thing has changed over the lifetime of this Parliament—well, actually, two thing...
The Lord Advocate
There are a number of aspects to your question, Mr Carlaw, and I hope that I can cover them in my response. I understand your sense of profound change in th...
The Convener
Con
I am grateful for your expression of empathy with the victims and the efforts that you have been making to progress changes. On victims, you referred to the...
The Lord Advocate
Given what you have described to me, it sounds as if the events that happened to that child were reported to the police. The police have published guidelines...
Alistair Hogg
Of course. I know that you raised other issues, Mr Carlaw, but on support, protection and information for victims, a lot of these issues were discussed durin...
The Convener
Con
The earliest petition was submitted in 2022, but the evidence that we took subsequently was to illustrate the issues raised by the petitions rather than abou...
The Lord Advocate
I think that Ms Ross knows about the case that you were talking about, Mr Carlaw, and she would be able to fill in the gap with information that I was unawar...
The Convener
Con
That would be helpful, as long as we keep it all very anonymised, because we are trying to talk in general terms without identifying anybody.
The Lord Advocate
It might just help to hear what happened, without naming individuals.
Stephanie Ross (Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service)
Good morning. Thank you, Lord Advocate. I will try to just fill in the gaps, if that would be helpful. I am familiar with the circumstances of the particular...
The Lord Advocate
There was a conviction.
Stephanie Ross
There was a conviction.
The Convener
Con
Thank you very much. When we began, I was struck that, in response to Mr Golden, you made the reasonable point that prosecution is just one part of the way i...
The Lord Advocate
That is a very good point. There are multiple ways that that could be answered. I believe that the police service of Scotland is fundamentally committed to t...