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Committee

Criminal Justice Committee 25 June 2025

25 Jun 2025 · S6 · Criminal Justice Committee
Item of business
Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I will start by saying a bit about the financial side. We are talking about a maximum cost of £23 million, which is only 0.5 per cent of the justice budget. In my opening statement, I mentioned that domestic abuse costs the public sector £7 billion over a three-year average period of abuse. We should also not forget, when we talk about domestic abuse in monetary terms, that we are talking about real people. Even one person going through domestic abuse is one too many, and we know that many have lost their lives. The money will be very well spent.

We talk about a figure of £23 million, but that is the highest amount. As we go through the bill, members will see that there are certain things for which we can look at mitigating costs as we go along. You mentioned the costs around part 1 of the bill, but part 1 is essential and important. I have spoken to many survivors—I have spoken to the organisations, too—and not one survivor said to me, “Pam, we don’t need this so-called notification” or register, as one might call it.

Notification is important because right now, to be honest, if I were not a politician, I certainly would not know anything about any disclosure scheme or anything in that respect. I know about that only because I am a politician and I am doing the work. I will describe a scenario that might play out. If I was a survivor and I was experiencing domestic abuse, I would not know to pick up the phone and to look for a disclosure scheme. I would be domestically abused, and the abuse would carry on. Coming from a BAME background, and having friends from other backgrounds, I know that the abuse continues on and on.

Having a lifeline, and knowing that somebody out there—the authorities, whether it is MAPPA or the police—has a little bit more information than I do, might save my life. The notification provisions in part 1 would require that the information has to be provided by the offender. That has never been done before, as far as I know, in any legislation to do with domestic abuse. The offender would have to go into a police station or to a member of police staff to give the information that their circumstances have changed. That could save somebody’s life. I believe, therefore, not only that the bill is a lifeline, but that the notification scheme would give victims a feeling that there is extra safeguarding, and that there is somebody else out there looking out for them so that they will be notified.

Last but not least, the bill could be a deterrent. Who wants to be on a so-called notification database or register? We know that it could act as a deterrent, in a similar way to the sex offenders register.

I have got all that information from my consultations. I went out to do personal, informal consultations: one in 2024, and then the main consultation; the committee has that information in front of them.

I did not take the decision to introduce the bill at all lightly, convener. I hope that I have answered your questions.

09:45  

In the same item of business

The Convener SNP
Our next agenda item is an evidence session on the Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill at stage 1 with the member in charge of the bill, Pam Gosal. ...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Good morning. I introduced the Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill in May 2025, following the usual members’ bill process and with the support of th...
The Convener SNP
Thank you for your opening remarks. I start with a pretty general opening question. As I am sure that you will be aware, our committee business is quite bill...
Pam Gosal Con
I will start by saying a bit about the financial side. We are talking about a maximum cost of £23 million, which is only 0.5 per cent of the justice budget. ...
The Convener SNP
I think that I am right in saying that your bill began its journey back in 2022. To what extent have you made sure that the figures that you are looking at o...
Pam Gosal Con
I have spoken to the police—as you know, the police have to stay neutral in the informal consultation. Although people might be positive about the bill, the ...
Agata Maslowska (Scottish Parliament)
Under part 1 of the bill, the main cost is in expanding the existing multi-agency public protection arrangements to include the most serious domestic abuse o...
The Convener SNP
I have a final question before I bring in Liam Kerr. You said that you anticipate that an additional 3,000 domestic abuse offenders would be included in the ...
Agata Maslowska
Yes—we added that caveat in the financial memorandum.
The Convener SNP
Before I bring in Liam Kerr, I think that Rona Mackay has a supplementary question.
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Yes—it is just a small question on what Agata Maslowska said about the most serious sex offenders. What criteria are you using for that? What constitutes a ...
Charlie Pound (Conservative MSP Group)
With regard to domestic abuse offenders specifically, it would be those who were sentenced to 12 months or more for what is specified as a domestic abuse off...
Rona Mackay SNP
Basically, it is for sentences of 12 months or more.
Charlie Pound
Yes.
The Convener SNP
I will now bring in Liam Kerr.
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Pam Gosal, on your point that the provisions in your bill would act as a deterrent, I note that you based the notification requirements on those in the Sexua...
Pam Gosal Con
I have had a good look to see what evidence is out there. Sex offenders are already subject to notification requirements, as you know, and there is significa...
Charlie Pound
Just for clarification, the statistics on recidivism that Pam Gosal cited are from the Scottish Government’s official reoffending statistics. They relate spe...
Liam Kerr Con
Thank you for that—perhaps you could send that data to the committee. As I said, in the consultation, expert organisations have told us that that evidence is...
Pam Gosal Con
That is a good question. I mentioned in my opening statement and in my answer to the convener what happens with the disclosure scheme. It is a good scheme, a...
Liam Kerr Con
Before he does, I note that your answer suggests that any issue with the existing scheme is due to a lack of knowledge and awareness of what is already there...
Pam Gosal Con
Perhaps I did not put that right. When I talk about knowledge, I am not talking about what they should know about the scheme, I am talking about knowledge of...
Charlie Pound
I will just throw some statistics at you. A previous freedom of information request that I made showed that, in 2021-22, there were 1,959 disclosures under t...
Liam Kerr Con
I understand. Thank you.
The Convener SNP
I will bring in Pauline McNeill, who I think wanted to come in earlier.
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I have a question about which offenders would be caught by the scheme. Charlie Pound, you explained to Rona Mackay that offenders who had been given a 12-mo...
Charlie Pound
Yes.
Pauline McNeill Lab
So, is it both?
Charlie Pound
Both what, sorry?
Pauline McNeill Lab
The offenders who would be on the register would be those who were convicted on indictment and those who served—