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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 26 June 2025

26 Jun 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill
McCall, Roz Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

I rise to speak on the LCM that we have been asked to approve this afternoon. It has already been highlighted that it covers child employment, secure care and residential care. I have concerns about it, which I will briefly outline to members.

At face value, the proposal to allow residential accommodation as an alternative to secure care might seem uncontroversial. Indeed, the Scottish Government seems quite comfortable in its assertion that it is very unlikely that a child would be given a cross-border placement. Unfortunately, however, unlikely does not mean impossible. The Scottish Government’s memorandum states that

“allowing for this option is in line with article 3 of the UNCRC, which requires that the best interests of the child are a primary consideration in all actions involving them.”

The proposal to allow residential accommodation might seem helpful in offering greater flexibility, especially where capacity is under pressure. Secure accommodation in Scotland is currently under immense pressure, but we must not lose sight of what secure care is and why it matters.

Last year, in this Parliament, we passed the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Act 2024, which moved away from placing children in young offenders institutions and into an individual child-based system that increases the use of secure care, with all the safeguarding and specialist support that come with it. We said that the outcome of that would be that there would be immense pressure.

The briefing from the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland for this LCM also raises concerns, specifically about the possibility of cross-border placements. I stress that the fact that the Government assures us that such placements are unlikely to happen does not mean that they will not happen.

Residential care is not secure care. It does not offer the same physical security, therapeutic oversight or legal framework. It is not a like-for-like substitute, and we should not treat it as one.

I have a couple of questions for the minister. What legal guarantees could be put in place to prevent residential facilities being utilised in a justice-related placement? How will cross-border oversight be managed if the facilities are based in England? I look forward to the assurances and information on that, and I accept that the minister is stepping in on this matter.

I will also briefly address the child employment provisions. On the surface, they are not controversial, but there is an open question that I would like clarity on. Does the bill cover children who work on family farms or in small businesses? I understand that we have legislation on that, but, all over Scotland, that is not just a job but part of family life. That is how many people—especially young people—learn responsibility. If there is any unintended impact, we must understand it and address it.

Finally, I come to the point on process that has already been highlighted very well by Jeremy Balfour and Douglas Ross. It is my understanding that the LCM is being rushed because the UK Government did not fully appreciate the Scottish implications of the amendments, despite the UK bill being in the House of Lords. I note the minister’s comments and his apology for any delay on the Scottish Government’s side, and that is accepted. However, Parliament is being asked to approve last-minute changes to devolved legislation without full consultation, without detailed impact assessments and without certainty on how those powers would be used.

We are being asked to give up scrutiny and to take on trust that it will all work out, and I am afraid that I cannot do that. I was assured that the concerns raised about secure accommodation provisions in the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Act 2024 would not be an issue, but it has come to pass that they are. When vulnerable children are involved, I cannot simply go on assurances—the price is too high.

We have a responsibility to protect the integrity of our justice reforms, the clarity of our devolved powers and, above all, the rights of the children we serve. On that basis, we will not fully support the legislative consent motion, but we will not oppose it.

16:25  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-18081, in the name of Natalie Don-Innes, a legislative consent motion on the Children’s Wellbeing and Sch...
The Minister for Higher and Further Education; and Minister for Veterans (Graeme Dey) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer, for the opportunity to open the debate, which will focus on proposed changes to United Kingdom legislation that have the potent...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
The minister will be aware that the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee met on Tuesday. There was no time for the committee to consider a written repor...
Graeme Dey SNP
There were a number of questions in there. On the timing and why we are discussing the LCM now instead of waiting, there is a compatibility issue with legisl...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Douglas Ross to speak on behalf of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. 16:18
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I rise to speak not about the detail of the LCM but about the process, and I endorse everything that Jeremy Balfour said. Before I come to what the DPLR Comm...
Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I rise to speak on the LCM that we have been asked to approve this afternoon. It has already been highlighted that it covers child employment, secure care an...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I will speak on behalf of Scottish Labour to various elements of the LCM. I compliment both committees that were involved in this matter—I appreciate the cha...
Graeme Dey SNP
I appreciate the opportunity to clarify. Let us be absolutely clear that the bill does not in any way change the approach in Scotland. Indeed, if we take the...
Martin Whitfield Lab
I thank the minister for his intervention. Unlike Roz McCall, I am reassured by that, because I think that, when the Government gives such assurances, we sho...
Jeremy Balfour Con
Will the member give way?
Martin Whitfield Lab
I will finish my point, and then I will come to Mr Balfour. I thank the minister for stepping in to cover the debate at this late stage.
Jeremy Balfour Con
Martin Whitfield will be aware that the legislation that we pass does not last just for the duration of the current Government; it lasts for years to come. I...
Martin Whitfield Lab
I am grateful for Mr Balfour’s intervention. Of course, no Parliament or Government can bind future Governments. On his underlying point, of course there sho...
Graeme Dey SNP
I will deal first with the legitimate points that members have raised. I absolutely take on board Douglas Ross’s point about the workload of the Education, ...