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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 24 June 2025 [Draft]

24 Jun 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3

I thank the cabinet secretary for that intervention, which I was prepared for. The cabinet secretary knows full well that the members of Unite in the Scottish Qualifications Authority would have preferred the accreditation and regulatory function to go to an entirely new body in the first place. In the absence of any planning, scoping or action from the Government or preparation for a proper qualifications system that puts young people’s future at its heart, Unite the Union recognises that a rushed job could be very difficult for its members, who have endured countless days, weeks, months and years of the Government’s dither and delay when it comes to properly reforming the education system. That is what Unite is not happy about, and that is why it is trying, at the very last moment, to convince the Government to do the right thing. As the cabinet secretary knows, that means moving the accreditation and regulatory function from the SQA into a new body.

Instead of supporting that, the cabinet secretary told members of the committee at stage 2 that she would take seriously Unite’s concerns about accreditation, that she would go away and think very carefully about it, and that she understood that the status quo—the function remaining in the qualifications body—was not acceptable. However, she brought along the chair of the current SQA to the cross-party discussions between stage 2 and stage 3. Regardless of members’ opinions on how impressive—or otherwise—one individual can be, in those discussions we were supposed to be considering where the Government would put accreditation, given that it had been told by the committee, experts and others that that function should not stay with the qualifications body. There is nothing in the bill that moves accreditation from that body into another body. That, to me, is a failure of reform—it is reform unfinished.

15:45  

The Parliament has the option over the next 48 hours—sorry, 24 hours; I do not wish to extend the debate for a further 24 hours—to legislate for a system that stands the test of time and in which the accreditation body for qualifications in Scotland is able to accredit school qualifications in the future, whether or not that includes the ones that the SQA accredits now. If we are reforming the curriculum and assessment, we need to know that the body that oversees qualifications is in a separate place from the one that awards them. We should have taken that opportunity already in the bill. Separation would future proof the landscape and would create a coherent system that could regain and enjoy the trust of pupils, learners, teachers, parents and employers.

Our amendments to create curriculum Scotland—amendments 8, 9, 10, 159, 162 and 164, as well as amendments 6, 7, 180 to 192, 250, 74, 254, 256, 262, 263, 264 and 312—give the Parliament plentiful options to do the job properly. I will come to some of those amendments and the rationale behind them when we debate a later grouping. All the options that we are presenting today give the Parliament the opportunity to create the structures for world-leading curriculum development and a separate body to host the accreditation of our qualifications.

However, if members are not supportive of our package to create curriculum Scotland but would like to deliver on the advice of experts and teachers and on the expectations of pupils and parents, they can support my other amendments, which would guarantee the separation of awarding and accrediting functions by moving the regulatory and accrediting function to the chief inspector’s office, to be overseen by a chief regulator. Amendments 158, 161, 163, 197, 199, 200, 207, 208, 225, 226, 277, 253 and 260, all in my name, would achieve that.

Presiding Officer, forgive me for cantering through the amendment numbers in the interests of time; I know that members will have studied the groupings and the marshalled list and will have an understanding of what the amendments do.

There are other amendments that the Parliament has the option to support to deliver on expert opinion and on pupil, parent and teacher expectations. Amendments 158, 161, 163, 209, 228, 252, and 261, also all in my name, would place accreditation in the office of the chief inspector without there being a chief regulator. I invite colleagues to also consider that option.

All those options would also create a committee for accreditation, to which the function would be accountable. That has been considered crucial by staff currently in the SQA and by external experts.

Separating the functions is not just the direction that Scottish Labour believes that we should go in; countless experts have said the same. I repeat that point, because it is crucial. The Education, Children and Young People Committee also agreed with that position at stage 1.

The cabinet secretary and members on the Government front bench are laughing. However, when we did not get this right in 2020, pupils from the poorest backgrounds had their grades downgraded. This year, there was a scandal after a history exam was allowed to continue even though experts raised concern after concern that, as Ross Greer indicated, the quality assurance function for that exam sat within the body that set it. The cabinet secretary and other members in the chamber may find that funny but I am sure that people who are watching the debate will not.

Jenny Gilruth rose—

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Education (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with the amendments, members should have the bill as amended at...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Group 1 is on support needs. Amendment 1, in the name of Miles Briggs, is grouped with amendments 5, 165 to 168, 321, 248, 249 and 76.
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
In the interests of brevity, I will try to speed up my comments during the rest of the afternoon. I was pleased to lodge this suite of amendments following ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
First, let me say a huge thank you to the legislation team, who have been working day and night to support members across the chamber with the amendments tha...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I thank Mr Briggs and Ms Duncan-Glancy for setting out their amendments. I put on the record my sincere thanks to Scottish Government officials in the legisl...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Miles Briggs to wind up and say whether he wishes to press or withdraw amendment 1.
Miles Briggs Con
I have nothing further to add, and I press the amendment. Amendment 1 agreed to. Section 4—The accreditation function
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Group 2 is on accreditation and quality assurance of qualifications. Amendment 98, in the name of Pam Duncan-Glancy, is grouped with amendments 125, 147, 154...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I ask members to please be patient and consider what I say carefully as I outline a number of the amendments in this group, which may take a bit of time. Th...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I am happy to take Ross Greer’s intervention.
Ross Greer Green
Would the member join me in recognising the difference between accreditation and quality assurance? Simply moving the current accreditation function to any o...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Mr Greer is quite right in relation to higher history, but he did not point out that, although the SQA does not accredit or regulate our school qualification...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
We debated the issue at length at stage 2. I remind Pam Duncan-Glancy of correspondence that the committee and I received from Unite the Union, which represe...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary for that intervention, which I was prepared for. The cabinet secretary knows full well that the members of Unite in the Scottis...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
Did the cabinet secretary wish to make an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
For the record, I was not laughing at the content of Ms Duncan-Glancy’s contribution.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary for that clarification. I am pleased that she will listen to and take seriously what is being said. The Education, Children an...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government (Shona Robison) SNP
Did I mishear? I thought that I had just heard Pam Duncan-Glancy talk about making good law today. She and her party are voting against the bill, are they not?
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary—
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will my colleague take an intervention?
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I will.
Martin Whitfield Lab
I am very grateful—Interruption. I suggest that my colleague has articulated clearly the reason for her conclusion in the summation of her contribution. Had—
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Resume your seat, Mr Whitfield. This will be a long afternoon and evening. It will be even longer if we do not listen to the member who has the floor, who, ...
Martin Whitfield Lab
I am very grateful, Deputy Presiding Officer. I shudder at your premonition of how today might go. Had members listened to my colleague’s submission, they w...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I thank the member for that intervention—I enjoy the unity that we have across Scottish Labour, which is not something that we always see across the Governme...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Before calling the next speaker, I want members to reflect on the fact that discussions took place with business managers and members with key amendments abo...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I fully respect Pam Duncan-Glancy, but I must disagree with her this afternoon. The fact that she has presented a number of options shows that there is still...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I hugely respect the member and it pains me to have to disagree with his direction of travel here. The reason why there are options is not that we have not c...
Willie Rennie LD
The process has been constructive. It is a good example of how committees can work well together. We have come to an issue that is not central to the reform...