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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 12 June 2025

12 Jun 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Fornethy Survivors
Ewing, Fergus SNP Inverness and Nairn Watch on SPTV

I warmly congratulate Colin Smyth on his dogged pursuit of this issue and on the speech that he gave today, which is one of the finest that we have heard in this session of Parliament. I also commend members across all the main parties—Mr Cole-Hamilton, Mr Golden, Mr Greene and many others—who have supported the Fornethy victims in the meetings of the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee and in the chamber. It is a matter of some shame that this debate is so poorly attended. It reflects badly on us all.

Presiding Officer, you have given a ruling that we cannot talk about the abuse that was inflicted on these innocent girls. I will respect that, but, having read through the histories of abuse and the lifelong impacts that that has had on the girls as adults and for the whole of their lives, it is plain to me that this Parliament, if it stands for anything, must redress that injustice. I hope that we can all unite behind that.

The sad fact is that the palpable, egregious and serious injustice that was caused to the most innocent girls in the country over a sustained period of more than 30 years, for several weeks at a time, which is the truth of the matter, has still not been redressed by either the Glasgow Corporation or the Scottish Government. The Scottish Government must take the lead. We must accept the responsibility to do that. How it is done is a mere detail. If it requires legislative reform, that must be done. If it requires an executive direction to Redress Scotland, that must be done. We cannot hide behind legalistic arguments.

The idea that these children were put there for a holiday or respite care is an insult. As well as being an insult, it is factually wrong. Fornethy was a residential school. The corporation advertised for teachers. What do teachers do? They teach in schools. Therefore, that argument is just an insult to the victims. It is platitudinous, pedantic, nitpicking and legalistic, and I do not think for one moment that the current Deputy First Minister would seek to invoke or stand behind it.

The other argument, as Mr Smyth has said, is that the girls did not cease to be under parental control. Are people really saying that the parents consented to the abuse that their children suffered? What arrant nonsense. What an absurd argument. The indisputable fact is that the girls were sent there by Glasgow Corporation. Glasgow Corporation owned the school. It was part of the state. The state is responsible for the abuse. It was young children who were abused. Abuse is always unacceptable, but it is despicable when it happens to young children.

With respect, Presiding Officer, I am not convinced that the sub judice law applies here in respect of the ability of the Government to provide a solution. It cannot hide behind that.

I was going to read from what the Deputy First Minister’s predecessor said two years ago, but I will note only that she said that a solution would be found. That was two years ago. Why has a solution not been found?

The Government must admit its mistake and say, “We got it wrong.” It takes guts to do that, and I believe that the Deputy First Minister has guts. All her colleagues are decent human beings. It is time for them to act, because, as Marcus Aurelius said,

“you can also commit injustice by doing nothing”.

13:05  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-15136, in the name of Colin Smyth, on justice for the Fornethy survivors. The debate wi...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Presiding Officer, “Trust is sacred. Our trust was broken as little girls—and now, trust in the system that’s supposed to help us and do right by us has bee...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Will Colin Smyth take an intervention?
Colin Smyth Lab
I am happy to take an intervention.
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I am grateful to Colin Smyth for giving way—particularly because, regrettably, I am required to attend the First Minister’s emergency summit on youth violenc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back for that intervention, Mr Smyth.
Colin Smyth Lab
I thank Alex Cole-Hamilton for the support that he has given to the Fornethy survivors, including on that visit with the women to Fornethy, which was an incr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I will just give a gentle reminder to those in the public gallery that this is a meeting happening in public rather than a public meeting, so I discourage th...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) SNP
I warmly congratulate Colin Smyth on his dogged pursuit of this issue and on the speech that he gave today, which is one of the finest that we have heard in ...
Maurice Golden (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank Colin Smyth for bringing forward the debate. It is not the first time that he has done so, and that is to his great credit, because he has been a lon...
Foysol Choudhury (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I join members in congratulating Colin Smyth on bringing this issue to the chamber once more, and I pay tribute to him for his long-standing campaigning for ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
I thank Colin Smyth for lodging his motion and securing this debate, and for his very powerful and moving opening speech. I concur with every single word. I...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful to have the opportunity to take part in the debate. I congratulate my colleague Colin Smyth and commend him for securing it and for uniting mem...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I thank Monica Lennon for taking my intervention. She is almost like an extra member of the committee, so frequent are her appearances to stand up for variou...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back, Ms Lennon.
Monica Lennon Lab
I am grateful to Fergus Ewing for the important points that he makes. It is not just a matter of whether it shames the Scottish Government—it shames Scotland...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call the Deputy First Minister, Kate Forbes, to respond to the debate. 13:23
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes) SNP
I thank Colin Smyth for lodging the motion and for his tireless work in supporting the Fornethy survivors. I give a huge welcome to the Fornethy survivors wh...
Fergus Ewing SNP
I note what the Deputy First Minister says in relation to the sub judice rule. However, the sub judice rule relates to a criminal case that is due to be hear...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Always speak through the chair.
Kate Forbes SNP
There is absolutely no hiding going on, because I am about to outline some of the actions that I took directly in response to the five actions that survivors...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
That concludes the debate. 13:32 Meeting suspended. 14:30 On resuming—