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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 June 2025

04 Jun 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Empowering Entrepreneurs and Innovators
Johnson, Daniel Lab Edinburgh Southern Watch on SPTV

I will allow Mr Fraser to defend his numbers; I was just providing some other context. We should look at the measure that the Deputy First Minister presented, but it is just one measure. All that I am asking for is a more holistic view.

The Scottish technology ecosystem report—STER—was very useful and important, but I ask the Government to question whether we are implementing every element of it as much as we could. There are a number of areas where we could go further, not least of which is ensuring that we embed the right skills in the education system and that we are delivering more computing science teachers.

We have already touched on the interfaces with higher education. There are still issues for innovation in that area, and it is good that the Deputy First Minister addressed that. However, there are still too many barriers, including that many higher education institutions are simply taking too high an equity stake in spin-outs, and those equity stakes are simply getting in the way of companies that are going for series A investment and so on.

We also need to look beyond technology start-ups. It was interesting that, again, we have had a presentation from the Deputy First Minister that has focused on that. It is absolutely right that we focus on technology start-ups, but they are not the only type of start-up. Critically, other areas where we seek to develop high-growth businesses, such as advanced manufacturing, life sciences, and food and drink, are more capital intensive. In those areas, capital equipment and plant are more expensive than they are for technology firms. The barriers between the different stages of the pipeline, as set out in the Scottish technology ecosystem report, are much higher for those sorts of capital-intensive businesses, and we need a renewed focus on how we help them to thrive.

I point out that the contrast that the Deputy First Minister made between small and medium-sized enterprises and high-growth start-ups is interesting. There are two ways of looking at that. There is a lot of value in high-growth technology start-ups, but the other way of looking at those figures is that we have an issue with growth across the broad range of SMEs. As well as looking at high-growth start-ups, we must look at ways in which we can help all small and medium-sized enterprises to grow.

As John Tsoukalas’s report on Scotland’s productivity challenge sets out, 90 per cent of Scottish businesses have seen no growth during the past two decades. We must develop approaches that help all businesses to invest and grow and help all businesses of all sizes to reach their potential. With that, I need to close.

I move amendment S6M-17785.2, to insert at end:

“; believes that Scottish businesses across sectors have not had adequate support from the Scottish Government to break down barriers to innovation, and that support must extend beyond start-up stage to provide advice and investment for scaling up; notes that the proportion of businesses in Scotland that are innovating, that is those introducing or developing a new product, service or process, has fallen from 50% in 2012-14 to just 32% in 2020-22, and calls on the Scottish Government to reform Scotland’s economic agencies to better support entrepreneurs and innovation in sectors across Scotland, including capital intensive sectors like life sciences and advanced manufacturing.”

15:52  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-17785, in the name of Kate Forbes, on empowering entrepreneurs and innovators. I invite members who wish ...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes) SNP
Entrepreneurs and innovators are the catalysts of growth that shape our economy. From the moment that I first entered Government, I have championed that agen...
Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Made a request to intervene.
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Kate Forbes SNP
Yes—although you do not look like Sharon Dowey.
Craig Hoy Con
Do I need to change, Presiding Officer, or can I simply self-declare?
Kate Forbes SNP
I am relaxed as to whether it is Sharon Dowey or Craig Hoy who intervenes.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Let us go with Craig Hoy.
Craig Hoy Con
I think that we have corrected the record, but I have slightly lost my train of thought. The minister is talking about young and ambitious entrepreneurs who...
Kate Forbes SNP
Absolutely. As a representative of Scotland’s islands—which I think that Craig Hoy mentioned—I would absolutely recommend that. A number of brilliant start-u...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I agree that we should champion success but, to truly succeed, we also need to acknowledge that there are issues. The Deputy First Minister might quote those...
Kate Forbes SNP
It is precisely because we needed to confront some of the challenges four years ago that we embarked on this journey to support Scottish entrepreneurs. The f...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Kate Forbes SNP
I will, particularly if it is to congratulate those businesses.
Murdo Fraser Con
I am very pleased to congratulate those businesses. As the cabinet secretary is talking about attracting investment, I wonder whether she will come on to tal...
Kate Forbes SNP
Intentionally or otherwise, the member is distorting the Scottish Government’s position. The Scottish Government has a long-standing position of not using pu...
Kate Forbes SNP
Just a minute. A matter of months ago, I announced £2 million of investment in the skills and training required, and we have also invested in defence compani...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Kate Forbes SNP
I love a good debate, but I would like to finish my speech, too. I will take this intervention, however.
Liam Kerr Con
I am grateful, and it will be very quick. Does the Government think that the way in which the current rates regime is structured militates against small busi...
Kate Forbes SNP
No, because of the small business bonus scheme, which remains the most generous across the United Kingdom.
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention on that point?
Kate Forbes SNP
I agree with Liam Kerr—and I have discussed this with Daniel Johnson in the past, too—that the rates system often does not take into account the fact that so...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way on that point?
Kate Forbes SNP
Do I have some time in hand?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You will get the time back, Deputy First Minister.
Stephen Kerr Con
As ever, the Deputy First Minister talks a really good game. However, when she talks about universities, does she not accept that the current funding model i...
Kate Forbes SNP
The point that I am making just now is that we have great research and development—I think that we would all accept that there is some brilliant research and...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I welcome the fact that we are having another debate on the economy. We now have something of a trend of economy debates, which is a welcome departure from t...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
Last night, I was at Daniel Johnson’s sponsored event with the Confederation of British Industry. Many people were talking about the flexible workforce devel...