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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 28 May 2025

28 May 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Teaching Workforce
Rowley, Alex Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

We will not be able to tackle the workforce challenges in education until we tackle the massive issues in our schools, which this Government has failed to do. Jackie Dunbar said that STEM graduates are highly sought after, which is right. However, given the challenges that teachers are facing, including burnout and behavioural problems in our schools, people weighing up their career after graduation are highly likely to go somewhere other than teaching. It is not always about money; there is also the stress and everything else that goes with being a teacher these days.

The record of this SNP Government is one of broken promises. It was first elected on a promise of cutting class sizes. The cabinet secretary talked about the teacher pupil ratio being lower in Scotland than elsewhere, which, as a generalisation, it might be. However, in 2022, I made a freedom of information request asking what class sizes were in Fife. The response showed that, in local primary schools, there were 412 classes with more than 25 pupils, and 136 classes with more than 30 pupils. I know that, in many of those classes, there is one teacher to 30 pupils, or one teacher to 25 pupils. Teachers have told me that they simply do not have the time to spend with children in order to bring them on.

We have the atrocious situation in which far too many children are going from primary school to secondary school not equipped to take in the lessons there. As a former teacher, the cabinet secretary will know that teachers expect primary school pupils to come through at a certain level and that, if they do not come through at that level, teachers have to spend a lot of time trying to support them. We doom too many children to failure.

Earlier, the Green MSP Maggie Chapman spoke about budgets. She was right to do so. Around 50 per cent of local authorities’ budgets go on education. Local authorities have had to deal with pressures for a good number of years, and education budgets have taken a hit. Councillors who have to put a budget together cannot make cuts without looking at the education service.

We need to address the issue of resources and finances, and we need to look at class sizes so that, as children come through, they have the best opportunity to achieve their full potential. Right now, they are being denied that. The cabinet secretary must take some responsibility for that.

A few weeks ago, I was contacted by a young woman in Fife who told me that, after graduating as a teacher, she got a temporary contract for a year in a primary school, which she loved. She was enjoying that job, but it came to an end, and she is now running around trying to get another job in teaching. As she cannot find a job in teaching, she is having to look elsewhere.

We need more teachers and smaller class sizes, we need to ensure that there are more teaching assistants in our classrooms and we need to look at additional support needs. Those are the issues that come through time and time again, but the Government does not seem to be addressing any of them. That is the problem. I have outlined what needs to happen. The Government needs to accept its responsibility for education—otherwise, what is the point of having an education secretary?

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-17669, in the name of Willie Rennie, on a new plan for Scotland’s teaching workforce. I invite members wh...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Presiding Officer, “I find myself ill with worry of how I will pay my bills. My car is broken but I cannot afford to fix it. My rent is £1000 but I cannot g...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
You need to conclude.
Willie Rennie LD
I appreciate that teacher workforce planning is not simple, but the Government has made the situation a whole lot worse. I move, That the Parliament acknow...
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth) SNP
I thank Mr Rennie for lodging the motion for debate during Liberal Democrat time. I thought that the story that he set out at the start of his speech was dee...
Jackie Dunbar (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
Does the cabinet secretary agree that there is also a role for other partners in workforce planning—universities, for example—to ensure that we have the righ...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I agree with the sentiments that the member has expressed. Our universities are directly involved in national workforce planning at the current time. I will...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I say to Ms Duncan-Glancy that I am conscious of time; I have one minute left. The teacher induction scheme has served us well for many years, and I have di...
Willie Rennie LD
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am happy to give way on that point, although I am conscious of time.
Willie Rennie LD
When will the cabinet secretary mention unemployed primary school teachers?
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I have five minutes for my speech and less than a minute left. I will come on to talk about that, because part of the issue is specifically about our primary...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank Willie Rennie and the Liberal Democrats for using their party business time to hold the debate. It is important that we highlight the pressures that ...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank Willie Rennie and the Scottish Liberal Democrats for bringing to Parliament this crucial motion, which we will support at decision time. Scottish Lab...
Jenny Gilruth SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
If the cabinet secretary is prepared to explain how she will take responsibility, I will be happy to take the intervention.
Jenny Gilruth SNP
I am here, as cabinet secretary, taking responsibility today. I gently say to the member that local authorities, not the Scottish Government, employ our teac...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
The cabinet secretary cannot see that we have gaps and that we have teachers without jobs in some areas and in some subjects. Only the Government has the ove...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
The figure of £145 million—now £186.5 million—should be enough to move every teacher who is on a temporary contract into a permanent role and to recruit hund...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (LD) LD
It is hard to believe, after 17 years of the present Government, that we are having this debate. We really should not be, but here we are. Let us not beat ab...
Jackie Dunbar (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) SNP
I want every child in Scotland to get the best possible start in life, and education is an affa big part of that best start. We have great schools and we hav...
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I am grateful to the Liberal Democrats for bringing this topic to the chamber, to allow us to have another education debate. I was thinking about the last ed...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
We will not be able to tackle the workforce challenges in education until we tackle the massive issues in our schools, which this Government has failed to do...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
George Adam will be the final speaker in the open debate. You have up to four minutes, Mr Adam. 15:31
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
As I have listened to the debate, what I was planning to say has changed about three or four times, so I apologise if my speech ends up being a bit of a mish...
Willie Rennie LD
In making his reasonable contribution, does the member recognise that the Government has contributed to the surplus, and therefore the unemployment, of prima...
George Adam SNP
Our job is to work together on solutions. The cabinet secretary has been open about how she is willing to work with members and others to see how we can go f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
We move to the winding-up speeches. 15:36
Maggie Chapman Green
There has been some discussion of the need for collaboration between national and local government to achieve a sustainable teaching workforce. The Liberal D...