Committee
Criminal Justice Committee 21 May 2025
21 May 2025 · S6 · Criminal Justice Committee
Item of business
Non-fatal Strangulation
I am very grateful. For the record, and for anyone watching, when you talked about DASA, you were talking about the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Act 2018.
I will stay with you, Fiona McMullan, but I suspect that Fiona Drouet will want to come back in on this.
You talked, in your very persuasive evidence, about things being treated as incident based. Police Scotland’s concern in its evidence is that, if a stand-alone offence is created, it might lead to a detriment in so far as an incident might be treated as an isolated incident rather than as a course of conduct under the 2018 act. It also suggests that that could shift prosecution to a specific incident-based approach, which could lead to evidential issues. How do you respond to that? That would be of concern to the committee, were that to happen.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Our main item of business is an evidence session on non-fatal strangulation, which includes consideration of the issues raised by petition PE2136, in the nam...
Fiona Drouet (EmilyTest)
Good morning, convener and members. The harms of non-fatal strangulation are significant in the immediate term and in the long term. We are looking at brain ...
Fiona McMullen (Advocacy Support Safety Information Services Together)
It is a privilege for me to amplify the voices of ASSIST victims and victims on the SafeLives authentic voice panel in relation to this issue. I would like ...
Professor Cath White (Institute for Addressing Strangulation)
Thank you for asking me to come and speak to the committee. I could probably talk all day about the impacts of strangulation, but I will not. I agree complet...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you. Before I bring in other members, I have a follow-on question for Professor White. You have described some of the impacts very powerfully. Would th...
Professor White
It is vital because, unless we have the data, we do not know what we are dealing with. First, the public have to have an awareness of the issues. If I see so...
The Convener
SNP
Before I hand over to Liam Kerr, I give the usual reminder to keep questions and answers succinct, because there is a great deal of interest in the issue.
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I thank all the witnesses for coming to help us today. What we have heard already has been very powerful. I will turn to Professor White first but invite oth...
Professor White
I am not sure that I am best placed to answer that question because I do not have expertise in Scottish law. There does not have to be an injury in England ...
Liam Kerr
Con
The point about data is an important one. My question, which I will throw open to Fiona Drouet, is, do we require a legislative fix or is there something tha...
Fiona Drouet
My concern about looking for potentially quicker alternatives is whether they would be as effective. For example, if strangulation was an aggravator, would t...
Fiona McMullen
That links to domestic abuse legislation and whether we think that it goes far enough to capture non-fatal strangulation. We welcomed that legislation—it is ...
Liam Kerr
Con
I am very grateful. For the record, and for anyone watching, when you talked about DASA, you were talking about the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Act 2018. I w...
Fiona McMullen
It is a complex issue. We have largely incident-based reporting at the moment. We are not capturing non-fatal strangulation in those reports. I feel that we ...
Liam Kerr
Con
I understand.
Fiona Drouet
Fiona McMullen articulated that very well. We are failing victims if strangulation is seen as an add-on—for example, a common assault with strangulation. How...
Fiona McMullen
I will briefly add that 223 of those victims were aged under 30.
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I was first alerted to this issue at a cross-party evening meeting. Some of the other committee members were also in attendance. I learned things that I knew...
Fiona Drouet
I absolutely agree. I think that it is influenced heavily by pornography and many other social factors. We talk about consensual sex, but I always call it so...
Fiona McMullen
I will add briefly to that. As I said, we did 1,201 risk assessments. Only 18 of the 596 victims who had experienced strangulation said that it was during se...
Professor White
My background is in sexual violence, and there is, of course, a big overlap between domestic abuse and sexual violence. That goes back to some of the earlier...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
Thank you. I will explore that issue further. Any anecdotal evidence would suggest that it is not even specific to men or women, but I have not seen the data...
Fiona Drouet
I am happy to come in. I always think that it puts us in a more fortunate position that we can look at other jurisdictions and the weaknesses in their existi...
Professor White
With regard to consent, I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that, in England and Wales, you cannot consent to something that does you serious harm. Th...
Fiona McMullen
I am here to think about domestic abuse, and it is a repeat crime: domestic abuse is unique and quite distinct in its nature. Campaigning is really importan...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
Good morning. Fiona Drouet, I want to ask you something aside from our discussion about whether there should be a stand-alone offence. Do you think that, dur...
Fiona Drouet
It would absolutely be helpful, and at all levels. When the Crown discloses that the matter relates to domestic abuse, the question should be asked. Indeed, ...
Rona Mackay
SNP
My thinking was that it would at least raise awareness, during the prosecution, that that had happened.
Fiona McMullen
That should be happening just now. When the police go to a domestic abuse incident, they will offer every victim the same risk assessment, which I have spoke...
Rona Mackay
SNP
I was interested in what you said in your opening comments about the case in which someone was in a car, coming home from their mother’s funeral. You just do...