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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 May 2025

14 May 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Additional Support for Learning
Greer, Ross Green West Scotland Watch on SPTV

I thank Miles Briggs for giving us the opportunity to debate this issue today. I should start by making absolutely clear the Scottish Green Party’s support for the principle of mainstreaming and that we reject any attempt to undo that. However, mainstreaming without adequate resourcing just sets up failure.

It sets up something worse than failure, actually. We have children in our schools who are being traumatised by being mainstreamed without adequate resources and support to meet their needs. One of the comments that we hear most often from parents and carers, teachers and support staff is that there needs to be a catastrophic failure for a child before the right support is put in place. Children need to be traumatised before the local authority allocates adequate resources to them.

I have sympathy for local authorities and I understand the resource pressures that they are under, but it cannot be right that the system relies on failure before action is taken to support a child whose needs are known and understood in advance.

I am glad that the motion calls for a review, but such a review cannot just repeat what we already know; it needs to build on the Morgan review, the co-ordinated support plan review, the Audit Scotland paper that Miles Briggs mentioned and multiple committee inquiries. It must focus on the actions and solutions that are required to address the implementation gap in the presumption of mainstreaming. There is no need for it to repeat the issues that we are already aware of.

I accept that there are financial and resource challenges, which are the greatest barrier to success in supporting children with additional needs. However, that is not an insurmountable barrier. I gently encourage colleagues to speak to their party colleagues on the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, which is about to consider my amendments to address some of the issues around local government financing that are relevant to the Housing (Scotland) Bill.

Alongside resourcing, we need to look at policy and legislative solutions. That is why the Green amendment, which was not selected today, pointed to the Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004. That is a clear example of an area in which legislation needs to change. The world has moved on since 2004, as has our understanding of additional support needs.

As it stands, co-ordinated support plans are the only statutory plan available for a child with additional needs, whereby if there is a failure to support the child, they and the adults in their life have the opportunity of going to a tribunal to seek redress. However, to receive a co-ordinated support plan, a child must receive support from at least two different sources. The Parliament has already taken evidence on the challenges with that. One area in which we have made progress recently is to get educational psychologists and counsellors back into our schools. However, because they are now based in the school, that no longer counts as a separate stream of support for the child. Children who would previously have qualified for a co-ordinated support plan no longer do so, because of an improvement that we made in another area of support. That cannot be right.

I do not think that the solution is to update the primary legislation; the solution is to take the criteria for co-ordinated support plans out of primary legislation and put them into regulations, which the Government and Parliament would be able to update with far greater ease than has been possible for the relevant legislation over the past two decades.

I say to the Government, which I am sure will mention in closing the “Additional Support for Learning: Action Plan”, that it should ask itself whether, if every action in that plan is implemented and implemented well, it will shift the dial. None of us believes that it will. Every action in that plan is laudable and would be useful, but none of it will transform what is a catastrophic situation for many of the most vulnerable children in our schools—children whose needs are not being met—and for the wider school community, especially their parents and carers.

The debate is an opportunity for us to talk again about the required solutions to this problem. We have spent at least the past decade going over the same ground about what the problems are. I would really like to hear from the Government in particular this afternoon about the new actions that it will take to tackle the crisis in our schools.

15:48  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-17524, in the name of Miles Briggs, on a review of additional support for learning and the implementation...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
I am pleased to open this important debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives. The report on additional support for learning that Audit Scotland publish...
The Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport (Maree Todd) SNP
I thank Mr Briggs for lodging his motion, which calls for a review of additional support for learning and the implementation of mainstreaming. I confirm that...
Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Does Maree Todd agree with the call from Miles Briggs that today’s debate must be a “wake-up call” for a fundamental change in how we move forward in this area?
Maree Todd SNP
As members will hear as I go through my speech—if I have an opportunity to get into it—and as the cabinet secretary will confirm, the Government is already t...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills told the Scottish Secondary Teachers Association that she thought that the law that the minister has just desc...
Maree Todd SNP
I am sure that the cabinet secretary will explain all that later. The Government is always looking to improve—there is no question about that. The motion re...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I agree with the minister’s point about language, particularly as it is mental health awareness week, but the reality is that, in Glasgow, for example, 9,000...
Maree Todd SNP
CAMHS is simply not the correct service for children who are seeking a diagnosis for neurodevelopmental conditions, unless they are seeking support for a co-...
Miles Briggs Con
Will the minister take an intervention?
Maree Todd SNP
I will take one more intervention on that point.
Miles Briggs Con
I have been listening to what the minister has to say. The biggest problem—and parents will say this to all of us—is that young people have to wait for years...
Maree Todd SNP
Our overriding focus is on ensuring that people get the right help and support and that that help and support is available for our young people, particularly...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I appreciate that the minister was very generous in accepting interventions, but she will need to conclude as there is no time in hand.
Maree Todd SNP
I fully recognise the important role that a diagnosis can play, but we have to recognise that diagnosis alone does not define or determine a child’s support ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Minister, you need to conclude, as you are well over your time. You will also need to move your amendment. Please do so now.
Maree Todd SNP
We have clear recommendations that support—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Minister, I ask you to move your amendment and to please resume your seat.
Maree Todd SNP
I will conclude. I move amendment S6M-17524.3, to insert at end: “agrees that all children and young people should receive the help that they need to thriv...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We have almost no time in hand. I can deal only with the time allocation that I have been given and I cannot magic time out of thin air. 15:39
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
All young people, including those with additional support needs, deserve the opportunity to learn and thrive, and our teachers, support staff, parents and pu...
Maree Todd SNP
I acknowledge that many children and young people require more targeted support from specialist services, but many other children and young people will have ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I think that Ms Duncan-Glancy has got the gist, minister.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I am afraid to say that the 9,000 people on waiting lists for support in Glasgow will be pretty vocal in explaining that the universal provision is not meeti...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You will need to bring your remarks to a close.
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
As Angela Morgan said, what we are talking about is no longer “additional”; it is the classroom now, and the Government needs to wake up and address the real...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
I thank Miles Briggs for giving us the opportunity to debate this issue today. I should start by making absolutely clear the Scottish Green Party’s support f...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
I start with a letter from a primary school teacher to the First Minister: “When I started teaching, inclusion was becoming more and more the norm within sc...
Karen Adam SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Willie Rennie LD
I have only four minutes. They would prefer for them to get a specialist level of support, but it is felt that the cost that would be involved in that is pr...