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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 13 May 2025

13 May 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

This is, without doubt, the most difficult and sensitive debate before the Parliament in the current parliamentary session. I pay tribute to Liam McArthur, because his handling of the bill, the respectful debate and the seriousness of his approach have been exemplary. We could not have picked a better advocate for trying to bring about such a fundamental societal change.

I did not support the first two bills that came before Parliament, which were proposed by Margo MacDonald and Patrick Harvie. In my view, they were too wide in scope, but this bill is more focused and therefore it deserves fresh consideration.

I am grateful to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee for its report and to all the organisations that provided briefings, because they were helpful when we were assessing the various arguments. Like most members, I have been inundated with emails, right up until minutes before the debate, from hundreds of constituents—some have emailed more than once—from many medical professionals including those who are for and those who are against, and from organisations that are in many cases neutral but wanted to share their concerns about the gaps in the bill and the need for further safeguards.

Then there were the very personal stories of constituents. Michelle Moffat from Dumbarton, a former intensive care unit nurse at the Golden Jubilee hospital, booked an assisted suicide at a Dignitas clinic but later cancelled it. Now, six years later, she is in a wheelchair, but she lives a full life, surrounded by family and friends. There is the emotional story of Julia from Cardross, who experienced the trauma of her husband trying to commit suicide on a number of occasions before finally succeeding, because he could not bear living any longer. There are the views of Jim Elder Woodward, who is disabled and concerned about the implications of the bill for disabled people. All those stories weigh heavily on our decision making.

I understand people wanting choice and dignity and agency in their death, but I worry about the safeguards. I do not want anyone to be coerced into taking their own life. I do not want anyone to believe that they might be a burden to their family and feel a misplaced sense of duty to end their life prematurely.

I worry that the medical profession is so divided and about the practical implications for the NHS—whether medical professionals can opt out or whether training will be given to those who administer end-of-life medication. I have no sense yet from the Scottish Government whether that training can practically be delivered or of the cost of that to the NHS.

Too much has not yet been scrutinised. I appreciate Liam McArthur’s willingness to consider stage 2 amendments, but there is a lot to be changed that will not receive the same level of scrutiny that the bill had at stage 1.

I am worried about the unintended consequences of things that we have not even begun to consider. For example, the most recent briefing from Dr Anni Donaldson of the University of Strathclyde raised the concern that abusive men would weaponise the legislation against a terminally ill partner. Whether that is likely, it was not something that I had considered in the context of the bill.

Children’s Hospices Across Scotland, which is based in Robin House in Balloch in my constituency, provides world-class respite and palliative care for children. It understandably believes that there should be a legal right to palliative care, and I welcome Miles Briggs’s work in that area. However, even with the change in age from 16 to 18, the bill still brings within scope young people who might have years of stable life left to live. It raises issues around a lack of a clear definition of capacity for young people, the lack of training to identify coercion, the structure of the service and the right of health professionals to opt out.

Speaking to hospices more generally, I am left asking what has happened to the Scottish palliative care strategy that was promised three-and-a-half to four years ago but has not yet been delivered. Where is the funding for hospice staff so that their pay can keep pace with pay for equivalent NHS staff? Why are we not investing in palliative care and making it sustainable? I encourage the Government to make progress in that regard. We talk about choice and, at one level, I absolutely agree, but we are not yet really giving people the choice of good palliative care.

I have given all the information careful consideration. I regret that I cannot support the bill in its current form, but whatever happens at the end of today, I will continue to engage with the process.

15:19  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-17416, in the name of Liam McArthur, on the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill at s...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Almost four years since I announced my intention to introduce a bill to allow terminally ill, competent adults the choice of an assisted death, Parliament fi...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I am grateful to the member for bringing his bill forward and laying it out in detail, but many constituents have raised with me that the definition of termi...
Liam McArthur LD
I thank Liam Kerr for that intervention. He is correct in that concerns have been raised about that definition in some quarters, although the evidence that w...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray) SNP
I thank Liam McArthur for taking an intervention as he sets out his introductory points. I will ask two practical questions. First, how does he envisage the ...
Liam McArthur LD
I thank the cabinet secretary for those questions—which, again, were raised during evidence to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. On delivery, ther...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I appreciate the comments that Liam McArthur has put on the record about the way in which the debate has been conducted, and I thank him for the respect that...
Liam McArthur LD
I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy for that intervention. I do not think that that is the case. Polling consistently shows support, not only in the population at larg...
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
As convener of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, I am pleased to speak to our stage 1 report on the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scot...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the open debate. 14:51
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray) SNP
First, I extend my thanks to Liam McArthur for introducing the bill. I think that every member, regardless of their personal view on the bill, would agree th...
Pam Duncan-Glancy SNP
If the bill were to pass, what area of the health service budget would provide the additional training and support that would be required?
Neil Gray SNP
That question came up during the committee scrutiny stage. Other than to say that we believe that there will be a cost that has not been fully factored in, t...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I stand to speak in this debate with sadness, because it is all about the ending of life. During life, there will never be a bigger decision than the decisio...
The Acting Minister for Climate Action (Alasdair Allan) SNP
I suspect that the member is coming to this point. Does he agree that, despite the many impassioned and sincere cases that have been and will be made today, ...
Edward Mountain Con
The bill does not do that because it is not known which substances are available. Some of the more effective substances are no longer produced. I think that ...
Liam McArthur LD
Will the member accept an intervention?
Edward Mountain Con
I will, if I have time.
Liam McArthur LD
For clarity: one would not expect the medication to be put in the bill. Due to the need for legislative competence, it would be inappropriate to set that det...
Edward Mountain Con
I understand why the drugs will not be put in the bill. Evidence from Canada has proven that no drugs are 100 per cent guaranteed to work, be pain free or be...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
It is a great privilege to follow Edward Mountain’s speech. I address my first remarks to my constituents. This is a debate unlike any other. It is a free v...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
This has been a difficult speech to write, and it will be difficult to deliver. Unlike some members whom we might hear from in the chamber today, I, thankfu...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
I take the member’s point about coercion. Does she accept that, for some people, the issue is not coercion but that they feel that they are a burden? Althoug...
Rona Mackay SNP
That might be the case, but the bill details that two independent doctors have to say that a person is terminally ill for assisted dying to happen, so we can...
Liam McArthur LD
Will the member give way?
Rona Mackay SNP
I will just carry on, thank you. Oh, sorry—I beg your pardon. Yes, I will take the intervention.
Liam McArthur LD
Does Rona Mackay accept that the burden issue is genuine and a sentiment that is keenly felt by people at the end of life, but at the moment, no safeguards o...
Rona Mackay SNP
I will come on to that shortly. An additional safeguard that the bill introduces is a new criminal offence of coercion, with a sentence of up to 14 years, wh...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
This is, without doubt, the most difficult and sensitive debate before the Parliament in the current parliamentary session. I pay tribute to Liam McArthur, b...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I make a declaration of interests, in that I am a practising NHS GP, and I chaired the medical advisory group on the bill. I thank Liam McArthur for being b...