Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 13 May 2025
13 May 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I understand why the drugs will not be put in the bill. Evidence from Canada has proven that no drugs are 100 per cent guaranteed to work, be pain free or be as quick as is necessary.
I know that my time is running short and there are many matters that I have still not addressed, such as the competence of the bill and who should be eligible. I understand that Mr McArthur has said that 16-year-olds should no longer be eligible. In its stage 1 report, the committee identified that a plethora of amendments would be required, and there are many errors that Liam McArthur himself accepts will need to be amended. All of those, and my specific concerns, tell me that the bill should stop here and should never progress until we are sure that everyone is able to get palliative care, so that they are not coerced into opting to end their life.
I cannot support the bill. In my mind, the Parliament has a duty to make it easier to choose life, rather than to make it easier to die—which is what the bill will do.
15:03In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-17416, in the name of Liam McArthur, on the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill at s...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)
LD
Almost four years since I announced my intention to introduce a bill to allow terminally ill, competent adults the choice of an assisted death, Parliament fi...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I am grateful to the member for bringing his bill forward and laying it out in detail, but many constituents have raised with me that the definition of termi...
Liam McArthur
LD
I thank Liam Kerr for that intervention. He is correct in that concerns have been raised about that definition in some quarters, although the evidence that w...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray)
SNP
I thank Liam McArthur for taking an intervention as he sets out his introductory points. I will ask two practical questions. First, how does he envisage the ...
Liam McArthur
LD
I thank the cabinet secretary for those questions—which, again, were raised during evidence to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. On delivery, ther...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I appreciate the comments that Liam McArthur has put on the record about the way in which the debate has been conducted, and I thank him for the respect that...
Liam McArthur
LD
I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy for that intervention. I do not think that that is the case. Polling consistently shows support, not only in the population at larg...
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP)
SNP
As convener of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, I am pleased to speak to our stage 1 report on the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scot...
The Presiding Officer
NPA
We move to the open debate. 14:51
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray)
SNP
First, I extend my thanks to Liam McArthur for introducing the bill. I think that every member, regardless of their personal view on the bill, would agree th...
Pam Duncan-Glancy
SNP
If the bill were to pass, what area of the health service budget would provide the additional training and support that would be required?
Neil Gray
SNP
That question came up during the committee scrutiny stage. Other than to say that we believe that there will be a cost that has not been fully factored in, t...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I stand to speak in this debate with sadness, because it is all about the ending of life. During life, there will never be a bigger decision than the decisio...
The Acting Minister for Climate Action (Alasdair Allan)
SNP
I suspect that the member is coming to this point. Does he agree that, despite the many impassioned and sincere cases that have been and will be made today, ...
Edward Mountain
Con
The bill does not do that because it is not known which substances are available. Some of the more effective substances are no longer produced. I think that ...
Liam McArthur
LD
Will the member accept an intervention?
Edward Mountain
Con
I will, if I have time.
Liam McArthur
LD
For clarity: one would not expect the medication to be put in the bill. Due to the need for legislative competence, it would be inappropriate to set that det...
Edward Mountain
Con
I understand why the drugs will not be put in the bill. Evidence from Canada has proven that no drugs are 100 per cent guaranteed to work, be pain free or be...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
It is a great privilege to follow Edward Mountain’s speech. I address my first remarks to my constituents. This is a debate unlike any other. It is a free v...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
This has been a difficult speech to write, and it will be difficult to deliver. Unlike some members whom we might hear from in the chamber today, I, thankfu...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind)
Ind
I take the member’s point about coercion. Does she accept that, for some people, the issue is not coercion but that they feel that they are a burden? Althoug...
Rona Mackay
SNP
That might be the case, but the bill details that two independent doctors have to say that a person is terminally ill for assisted dying to happen, so we can...
Liam McArthur
LD
Will the member give way?
Rona Mackay
SNP
I will just carry on, thank you. Oh, sorry—I beg your pardon. Yes, I will take the intervention.
Liam McArthur
LD
Does Rona Mackay accept that the burden issue is genuine and a sentiment that is keenly felt by people at the end of life, but at the moment, no safeguards o...
Rona Mackay
SNP
I will come on to that shortly. An additional safeguard that the bill introduces is a new criminal offence of coercion, with a sentence of up to 14 years, wh...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
This is, without doubt, the most difficult and sensitive debate before the Parliament in the current parliamentary session. I pay tribute to Liam McArthur, b...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
I make a declaration of interests, in that I am a practising NHS GP, and I chaired the medical advisory group on the bill. I thank Liam McArthur for being b...