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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 13 May 2025

13 May 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Gray, Neil SNP Airdrie and Shotts Watch on SPTV

First, I extend my thanks to Liam McArthur for introducing the bill. I think that every member, regardless of their personal view on the bill, would agree that Mr McArthur has undertaken careful and considered work on this complex, sensitive and emotive topic.

This debate is one of the most significant that we have faced during the current session of Parliament, and the vote is a matter of conscience for colleagues on all sides of the chamber. As you will be aware, Presiding Officer, colleagues will be wrestling with their individual consciences, recognising that there is no inconsequential choice before us today.

The Government has taken a neutral position on the bill at this stage—a decision that I outlined in my memorandum to the committee last year. As the Government’s lead minister for the bill, I feel that it is important that I reflect the Scottish Government’s position, and so, after careful consideration, I have taken the decision to abstain in the vote today.

I have paid close attention to the committee’s evidence gathering, and before I address the recommendations in the committee’s stage 1 report, I pay tribute to it for its diligent scrutiny. Although committee members will, of course, have their own personal views, they have put those to one side, listened dispassionately to the evidence and produced a sensitive and well-crafted report to assist MSPs in their deliberations. I thank members of the committee, those who gave evidence and the clerks for the service that they have given to us all.

The committee’s recommendations included considering how the bill would interact with all other key aspects of end-of-life provision and consulting with specialist bodies to ensure that capacity provisions in the bill are fair, do not discriminate and offer protection to vulnerable groups. Although I, on behalf of the Government, will remain neutral at this stage of the bill process, should the bill pass stage 1, we will engage sensitively and constructively on the issues that the committee has raised; the need to be demonstrably objective in that phase is a second explanation for my abstention today.

The committee raised the issue of legislative competence. I am pleased that Mr McArthur has acknowledged concerns around legislative competence and has sought to propose options for remedy in his policy memorandum. I know that Mr McArthur takes the issues of competence very seriously, and I give him and every member in the chamber my commitment that, should the bill pass stage 1, the Government will consider his proposals carefully and decide on the best route forward.

I would like to reflect on the recommendation concerning end-of-life care. Although I do not wish to conflate matters, knowing that palliative care can benefit people for many years and not just at the end of life, it is important to restate the Government’s commitment to ensuring that everyone who needs it can access well co-ordinated, timely and high-quality palliative care and care around dying. That commitment will remain paramount regardless of the outcome of today’s vote. There is not a choice of one or the other before us today, but rather a decision on the principle of assisted dying.

We are currently finalising the consultation analysis report on our draft strategy, “Palliative Care Matters for All”, and we will publish the final strategy and delivery plan this summer. The draft strategy focused on deliverable outcomes and actions that will help people of all ages get access to high-quality palliative care services, wherever they might be. It also focused on ensuring that our public services are sustainable, person centred and effective, particularly as the need for palliative care increases in years to come. The feedback from the consultation showed strong support for that person-centred approach, which will be reflected in the final strategy.

Palliative care that is delivered well can reduce hospital admissions and unnecessary treatment while improving outcomes for patients. That is why we want those who have responsibility for planning and delivery of health and care services to prioritise palliative care and invest in it some of the record £21.7 billion that we have put into health and social care services this year.

However, funding in isolation is not enough. We need everyone in Scotland to feel empowered to talk about living and dying well and to understand what services are available to them when they need them.

Whether or not we, as individuals, support the principles of the bill, we should be grateful for the spotlight that the debate has put on palliative care. I take this opportunity to put on record my gratitude to the NHS staff, hospice staff, community and social care staff and general practice staff who provide palliative care services across Scotland. They do a remarkable job.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-17416, in the name of Liam McArthur, on the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill at s...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Almost four years since I announced my intention to introduce a bill to allow terminally ill, competent adults the choice of an assisted death, Parliament fi...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I am grateful to the member for bringing his bill forward and laying it out in detail, but many constituents have raised with me that the definition of termi...
Liam McArthur LD
I thank Liam Kerr for that intervention. He is correct in that concerns have been raised about that definition in some quarters, although the evidence that w...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray) SNP
I thank Liam McArthur for taking an intervention as he sets out his introductory points. I will ask two practical questions. First, how does he envisage the ...
Liam McArthur LD
I thank the cabinet secretary for those questions—which, again, were raised during evidence to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. On delivery, ther...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I appreciate the comments that Liam McArthur has put on the record about the way in which the debate has been conducted, and I thank him for the respect that...
Liam McArthur LD
I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy for that intervention. I do not think that that is the case. Polling consistently shows support, not only in the population at larg...
Clare Haughey (Rutherglen) (SNP) SNP
As convener of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, I am pleased to speak to our stage 1 report on the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scot...
The Presiding Officer NPA
We move to the open debate. 14:51
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care (Neil Gray) SNP
First, I extend my thanks to Liam McArthur for introducing the bill. I think that every member, regardless of their personal view on the bill, would agree th...
Pam Duncan-Glancy SNP
If the bill were to pass, what area of the health service budget would provide the additional training and support that would be required?
Neil Gray SNP
That question came up during the committee scrutiny stage. Other than to say that we believe that there will be a cost that has not been fully factored in, t...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I stand to speak in this debate with sadness, because it is all about the ending of life. During life, there will never be a bigger decision than the decisio...
The Acting Minister for Climate Action (Alasdair Allan) SNP
I suspect that the member is coming to this point. Does he agree that, despite the many impassioned and sincere cases that have been and will be made today, ...
Edward Mountain Con
The bill does not do that because it is not known which substances are available. Some of the more effective substances are no longer produced. I think that ...
Liam McArthur LD
Will the member accept an intervention?
Edward Mountain Con
I will, if I have time.
Liam McArthur LD
For clarity: one would not expect the medication to be put in the bill. Due to the need for legislative competence, it would be inappropriate to set that det...
Edward Mountain Con
I understand why the drugs will not be put in the bill. Evidence from Canada has proven that no drugs are 100 per cent guaranteed to work, be pain free or be...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
It is a great privilege to follow Edward Mountain’s speech. I address my first remarks to my constituents. This is a debate unlike any other. It is a free v...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
This has been a difficult speech to write, and it will be difficult to deliver. Unlike some members whom we might hear from in the chamber today, I, thankfu...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Ind
I take the member’s point about coercion. Does she accept that, for some people, the issue is not coercion but that they feel that they are a burden? Althoug...
Rona Mackay SNP
That might be the case, but the bill details that two independent doctors have to say that a person is terminally ill for assisted dying to happen, so we can...
Liam McArthur LD
Will the member give way?
Rona Mackay SNP
I will just carry on, thank you. Oh, sorry—I beg your pardon. Yes, I will take the intervention.
Liam McArthur LD
Does Rona Mackay accept that the burden issue is genuine and a sentiment that is keenly felt by people at the end of life, but at the moment, no safeguards o...
Rona Mackay SNP
I will come on to that shortly. An additional safeguard that the bill introduces is a new criminal offence of coercion, with a sentence of up to 14 years, wh...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
This is, without doubt, the most difficult and sensitive debate before the Parliament in the current parliamentary session. I pay tribute to Liam McArthur, b...
Sandesh Gulhane (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I make a declaration of interests, in that I am a practising NHS GP, and I chaired the medical advisory group on the bill. I thank Liam McArthur for being b...