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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 29 April 2025

29 Apr 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Supporting Scottish Industry
Fraser, Murdo Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

I thank Mr Ewing for that intervention. I struggle to disagree with much of anything that he has said. He makes his points very well.

To come back to my basic point, the high cost of energy—specifically, electricity—must be addressed if we are concerned about the future of heavy manufacturing and industry in this country.

I turn to the point that Mr Johnson made. He reflects a point that has been made by the current UK energy secretary, Ed Miliband. He says that we have high electricity prices because we are overreliant on gas. I thought that I would examine some of the data. I am grateful to the latest edition of The Spectator magazine, which has some helpful information that compares the situation internationally.

In the UK today, the cost of our electricity per kilowatt or equivalent is 25.85p. We derive 34 per cent—just over a third—of our electricity from gas. Ireland has a lower price of 22.55p, yet it derives 50 per cent of its electricity from gas. Italy, which has a price of 21.82p, derives 45 per cent from gas. The Netherlands has a price of 16.28p and derives 38 per cent from gas. Greece has a price of just 15.31p and derives 32 per cent from gas. The US, which derives 42 per cent of its electricity from gas, has a price of just 6.48p, which is less than a quarter of what we currently pay.

Each and every one of those countries, which derive more of their electricity from gas than we do, has lower—and, in some cases, substantially lower—costs, which suggests that the issue lies elsewhere. The Deputy First Minister said in her remarks that we need to be clear about the root causes. I agree, and it is very clear that the root cause is not the component of gas in electricity production but lies elsewhere.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-17352, in the name of Kate Forbes, on supporting Scottish industry during turbulent economic times. I wo...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes) SNP
I will begin by saying that it is a matter of deep regret that Petroineos has closed the Grangemouth refinery. My immediate thoughts—and I am sure that I spe...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I agree with what the Deputy First Minister is saying, but does she share my concern and the concern of many members of this Parliament that we learned this ...
Kate Forbes SNP
I heard Mr Kerr’s point of order earlier. The point with which I agree the most is that having the workforce learn of any such decision through the media doe...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful to the Deputy First Minister for giving way and for her answer to Stephen Kerr, but will she clarify whether the Government was given any warni...
Kate Forbes SNP
With regard to the finer points of timescales, the only reason why I cannot be definitive is that I was in Cabinet this morning and I, too, learned of the de...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
I know that the Government is aware of a growing manufacturing company, Nova Innovation, which is a leading tidal developer with a manufacturing site in Leit...
Kate Forbes SNP
I am more than happy to meet with Ben Macpherson and Nova Innovation, which is exactly the kind of business that we want to support in Scotland, particularly...
Stephen Kerr Con
Will the Deputy First Minister give way?
Kate Forbes SNP
I love a proper debate, so I will be delighted to take another intervention.
Stephen Kerr Con
I thank the Deputy First Minister for being generous in taking interventions. There are issues that should probably be addressed in a ministerial statement o...
Kate Forbes SNP
Those are very good questions. Subject to the decision of the Parliamentary Bureau, I would be more than happy to come back to the Parliament with a statemen...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) SNP
Will the Deputy First Minister take an intervention?
Kate Forbes SNP
Who could resist taking an intervention from Mr Ewing as well?
Fergus Ewing SNP
I entirely share the Deputy First Minister’s sentiment, but does she agree that the biggest obstacle and greatest challenge that industry faces, whether in S...
Kate Forbes SNP
Once again, on that particular issue, I could not agree more. Being clear about the root causes of the issues is vital if we want to support Scotland’s manuf...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Will the Deputy First Minister give way?
Kate Forbes SNP
Presiding Officer, will you remind me how much time I have?
The Presiding Officer NPA
Fifteen minutes.
Kate Forbes SNP
Oh, wonderful. I give way to Daniel Johnson.
Daniel Johnson Lab
Thank you, Deputy First Minister—I will be brief. Despite today’s tragic announcements, does the Deputy First Minister accept that the UK Labour Government c...
Kate Forbes SNP
I accept that the UK Government’s engagement was good from the very beginning, but my concern is that, if we compare it with the action that it took in relat...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
Thank you, Deputy First Minister. Before I call the next speaker, I alert members to the fact that we have no time in hand and that, therefore, interventions...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I very much welcome this afternoon’s debate on supporting Scottish industry. I also welcome my good friend Jamie Greene to his new position as the economy le...
Daniel Johnson Lab
I agree with Murdo Fraser on the fundamental importance of energy costs for the industrial strategy, but does he accept that the previous Tory Government’s s...
Murdo Fraser Con
I am afraid that the member is wrong, and I will come on to explain why in just a moment.
Daniel Johnson Lab
I look forward to that.
Murdo Fraser Con
Thank you. On the point about steel, just last week, I read in the media that the current UK Government is considering importing coal to support our steel i...
Fergus Ewing SNP
On that point, does Mr Fraser agree that, since the UK produces 1 per cent of the world’s carbon emissions and Scotland produces one tenth of that, we are re...
Murdo Fraser Con
I thank Mr Ewing for that intervention. I struggle to disagree with much of anything that he has said. He makes his points very well. To come back to my bas...