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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 23 April 2025

23 Apr 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
United Kingdom Government Welfare Reforms

The heart of the issue is about political choices, with social security being a human right. I will touch on that later.

The DWP’s analysis has shown that its welfare reform agenda will push another 250,000 people into poverty, including 50,000 children. The Labour Government has been criticised for its announcement on welfare reform and the lack of detail.

It is disappointing that the UK Government failed to engage with the Scottish Government in advance of its announcement, and the results could be disastrous. The Westminster Government seems to have glossed over the fact that Scotland, thankfully, has some powers over social security, so there are practical issues relating to how Scottish disability benefits will tie into the UK Government’s universal credit system. As well as that, Scotland’s budget could be reduced if we get yet more Westminster cuts.

Glasgow Disability Alliance is completely against the proposals and has said that the

“attacks on disabled people are many, are brutal and are multi-faceted”.

In an excellent but hard-hitting briefing, it sets out the severe consequences for disabled people’s household finances and states that it will be

“extremely difficult for the Scottish Government to fully mitigate these changes”.

On a practical level, Glasgow Disability Alliance mentions that the UK Government’s green paper fails to set out how disabled people in receipt of the Scottish adult disability payment will qualify for the health element of universal credit. It estimates that Scotland’s budget could be cut by £1 billion per year, and it warns that the DWP might try to claw back money from Social Security Scotland if Scottish disability benefits remain better than those that are on offer south of the border.

Marie Curie has called for clarity from the UK Government on whether terminally ill people who claim universal credit will be required to take part in any work-related activity or otherwise be at risk of sanctions. I do not have time to mention other stakeholders, but it is clear that the Labour Government’s proposed welfare reforms are ill thought out, both in terms of practicality and in terms of being abhorrent.

The UK Government should not make those cuts. Keir Starmer, Liz Kendall and Anas Sarwar should listen to disabled people’s organisations and poverty groups and think again. By taking those decisions, the Labour Government has chosen to box itself in with its Tory austerity rules. Instead of reviewing PIP assessments and reintroducing mandatory reassessments, the UK Government should follow the Scottish Government’s lead and treat disabled people with respect. With the Labour UK Government showing no signs of changing course, the need for Scotland to become an independent country is more urgent than ever, so that we have the full powers that are needed to tackle poverty and create a fairer and more equal Scotland.

15:43  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-17242, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on the UK Government welfare reforms. I invite members who...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
I open this important debate with a message of solidarity: I want all disabled people to know that this Government stands with you in opposing the planned UK...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
He apologised!
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Oh, he apologised, I hear Mr Marra saying from a sedentary position. Well, that makes it fine, does it not? That makes it absolutely fine to say things like ...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I will if I can get some time back. Can I, Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Yes.
Craig Hoy Con
I accept the cabinet secretary’s point in respect of the UK Government, but has the Scottish National Party Government not made the same mistake at various p...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Our benefits bill is not related to whether people are in or out of work—with the greatest respect to Mr Hoy, I think that he is conflating different issues....
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I will put party politics aside for a minute, Presiding Officer. The recent debates about Labour’s welfare changes, highly charged as they have been—and I am...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Liz Smith Con
I will, but I think that I am nearly out of time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Very briefly, cabinet secretary.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I thank Liz Smith for her contribution so far, much of which I agree with. However, the comparison that she has just made is unfair, because the 2.2 per cent...
Liz Smith Con
We do need to be careful, because the point has been raised by the Scottish Fiscal Commission. I am very aware of the saying that all political careers end...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
During the debate, we have already acknowledged the complexity of social security and the complexities of having a devolved system and a reserved system that...
Liz Smith Con
I entirely agree with that point, but how does that sit with the UK Labour Government’s intention to put more and more costs on to employers, who are the ver...
Paul O’Kane Lab
Liz Smith and I have debated the national insurance increase before, as she has with Mr Marra and other members in the chamber. That choice was made so as no...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
The day before the proposals were unveiled, Mr O’Kane and I were on a panel together, and he did not want to speculate. We do not have to speculate any more—...
Paul O’Kane Lab
The point that I was about to make is that the green paper contains a range of proposals. The cabinet secretary now wants to pick and choose and debate indiv...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
We all want more people to be in employment, particularly those with a disability. However, does Paul O’Kane recognise that getting more people into employme...
Paul O’Kane Lab
I was just coming on to talk about ADP and PIP and trying to understand our devolved context in relation to ADP. The reforms to PIP are at UK level; we have ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
This afternoon’s debate is a call to conscience. The Scottish Green Party believes in building a society in which everyone can live with dignity; in which co...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
The debate is about a number of competing challenges. It is about dignity for disabled people—particularly those in poverty. It is about balancing the books ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
We move to the open debate. Back benchers will have speeches of up to six minutes. 15:36
Collette Stevenson (East Kilbride) (SNP) SNP
Since the election last year, the Labour UK Government has failed to compensate the WASPI women—women against state pension inequality—and has scrapped winte...
Jeremy Balfour Con
I agree with the cabinet secretary that social security is a social investment, but a social investment has to be paid for. We have a £1 billion deficit comi...
Collette Stevenson SNP
The heart of the issue is about political choices, with social security being a human right. I will touch on that later. The DWP’s analysis has shown that i...
Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak in the debate, and I will direct my remarks to the Scottish Conservative amendment, in the name of Liz Smith. The amendment correctly ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Does the member agree with her colleague Jeremy Balfour, who pointed out earlier in the debate that the ADP is not linked to employment, and nor should it be...