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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 23 April 2025

23 Apr 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
United Kingdom Government Welfare Reforms

The point that I was about to make is that the green paper contains a range of proposals. The cabinet secretary now wants to pick and choose and debate individual proposals, but, in her motion, she says that she wants to scrap the paper in its entirety and not have a broader debate about the issues that are contained in it.

There are nuanced issues in relation to the cohort of young people under 22. We have to look at how to go about increasing the age at which people receive support and at how they can receive differentiated support—for example, by moving the age from 18 to 16—and at how people are more supported in the round. That is important.

On supporting people into work—I will come on to talk about this—we must ensure that the investment of £1 billion that the UK Government is planning to make is focused on young people. We know that there is a huge challenge with that cohort of young people, because, if they do not work by the time they are 24, it is very unlikely that they will ever work. As I have outlined, it is important that those people who cannot work are given the support that they need to live.

I am concerned that we are not having a rounded debate and that the Government has decided, as set out in its motion, that the green paper should be completely dismissed out of hand. That would mean, for example, that we would not consider increasing the payment rate for the standard allowance of universal credit, which will benefit people who are out of work. It would mean abandoning any proposals to scrap the work capability assessment, which has long been called for by many campaigners who seek reform of the social security system. It would mean failing to progress any proposals to introduce a right to try work, which would allow individuals to attempt employment without the risk of losing the social security that they rely on. As I have said, it would also mean failing to advance the plan to invest £1 billion into employability support to ensure that people are properly supported in sustainable, well-paid employment. I am disappointed that we are not having that broader debate today.

It is right that we focus on what is happening in Scotland. The cabinet secretary made reference to employability and the work that is being done in that regard in Scotland. However, we know that, at present, 84,000 young people in Scotland are not in education, employment or training. We also know, thanks to research by the Scottish Parliament information centre and the Fraser of Allander Institute, that the disability employment gap in Scotland is wider than it is in the rest of the UK. We know that nearly 300,000 working-age people in Scotland are out of work because of illness.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-17242, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on the UK Government welfare reforms. I invite members who...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
I open this important debate with a message of solidarity: I want all disabled people to know that this Government stands with you in opposing the planned UK...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
He apologised!
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Oh, he apologised, I hear Mr Marra saying from a sedentary position. Well, that makes it fine, does it not? That makes it absolutely fine to say things like ...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I will if I can get some time back. Can I, Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Yes.
Craig Hoy Con
I accept the cabinet secretary’s point in respect of the UK Government, but has the Scottish National Party Government not made the same mistake at various p...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Our benefits bill is not related to whether people are in or out of work—with the greatest respect to Mr Hoy, I think that he is conflating different issues....
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I will put party politics aside for a minute, Presiding Officer. The recent debates about Labour’s welfare changes, highly charged as they have been—and I am...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Liz Smith Con
I will, but I think that I am nearly out of time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Very briefly, cabinet secretary.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I thank Liz Smith for her contribution so far, much of which I agree with. However, the comparison that she has just made is unfair, because the 2.2 per cent...
Liz Smith Con
We do need to be careful, because the point has been raised by the Scottish Fiscal Commission. I am very aware of the saying that all political careers end...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
During the debate, we have already acknowledged the complexity of social security and the complexities of having a devolved system and a reserved system that...
Liz Smith Con
I entirely agree with that point, but how does that sit with the UK Labour Government’s intention to put more and more costs on to employers, who are the ver...
Paul O’Kane Lab
Liz Smith and I have debated the national insurance increase before, as she has with Mr Marra and other members in the chamber. That choice was made so as no...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
The day before the proposals were unveiled, Mr O’Kane and I were on a panel together, and he did not want to speculate. We do not have to speculate any more—...
Paul O’Kane Lab
The point that I was about to make is that the green paper contains a range of proposals. The cabinet secretary now wants to pick and choose and debate indiv...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
We all want more people to be in employment, particularly those with a disability. However, does Paul O’Kane recognise that getting more people into employme...
Paul O’Kane Lab
I was just coming on to talk about ADP and PIP and trying to understand our devolved context in relation to ADP. The reforms to PIP are at UK level; we have ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
This afternoon’s debate is a call to conscience. The Scottish Green Party believes in building a society in which everyone can live with dignity; in which co...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
The debate is about a number of competing challenges. It is about dignity for disabled people—particularly those in poverty. It is about balancing the books ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
We move to the open debate. Back benchers will have speeches of up to six minutes. 15:36
Collette Stevenson (East Kilbride) (SNP) SNP
Since the election last year, the Labour UK Government has failed to compensate the WASPI women—women against state pension inequality—and has scrapped winte...
Jeremy Balfour Con
I agree with the cabinet secretary that social security is a social investment, but a social investment has to be paid for. We have a £1 billion deficit comi...
Collette Stevenson SNP
The heart of the issue is about political choices, with social security being a human right. I will touch on that later. The DWP’s analysis has shown that i...
Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak in the debate, and I will direct my remarks to the Scottish Conservative amendment, in the name of Liz Smith. The amendment correctly ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Does the member agree with her colleague Jeremy Balfour, who pointed out earlier in the debate that the ADP is not linked to employment, and nor should it be...