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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 23 April 2025

23 Apr 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
United Kingdom Government Welfare Reforms

Oh, he apologised, I hear Mr Marra saying from a sedentary position. Well, that makes it fine, does it not? That makes it absolutely fine to say things like that, or even to have those thoughts about a disabled person.

Such language also increases the barriers to accessing support that people are entitled to. I am encouraged by the amount of cross-party opposition to the UK Government’s rhetoric. I welcome comments from some Labour MSPs and MPs who have stood firm in their values and called on the UK Government to scrap these immoral plans. I am saddened, however, that a number of them have remained silent.

The decisions that the UK Government has taken with its publication of “Pathways to Work: Reforming Benefits and Support to Get Britain Working Green Paper” and its subsequent spring statement not only weaken the UK social security system but target some of the most vulnerable people who rely on it. People who do not meet the new personal independence payment threshold will receive far less than they would otherwise be entitled to and will be subject to pressure to enter the workforce, despite the challenges that society puts in their way.

The changes to PIP were announced by the UK Government in advance of any proper consultation. The current consultation has been described by Benefits and Work as “an entirely bogus” consultation in which the Department for Work and Pensions refuses to consult

“on almost everything that matters most to claimants.”

It is important to examine in detail just how damaging the proposed cuts are and the impacts that they will have, not only on people in Scotland but on people across the UK. The Office for Budget Responsibility has confirmed that the UK Government will cut £4.8 billion from benefits in 2029-30. The DWP’s impact assessment highlights that, by 2029-30, 3.2 million families will lose out as a result of the proposed cuts, with each family losing an average of £1,720 per year. A particularly damning aspect of an already damning set of circumstances is the fact that 96 per cent of the families who will be made worse off include a disabled person.

It is astonishing that, despite the UK Government’s stated aim of reducing child poverty, its analysis estimates that the reforms will push a further 250,000 people, including 50,000 children, into relative poverty by 2029-30. Where that leaves the current UK Government task force on child poverty, I honestly do not know.

Given that half of all children in poverty in Scotland live in a household with a disabled person, the proposed changes threaten to seriously undermine the progress that we are making here in Scotland to end child poverty, and they should have every member of this Parliament united in condemnation of the cuts and their impact.

I also find it astonishing that, in undertaking this exercise, the UK Government is balancing the books on the shoulders of vulnerable people and that it is doing so because of so-called fiscal rules, which are nothing short of totally self-imposed. That point, which has been made by many leading economists, has been echoed by former Bank of England deputy governor Charlie Bean, who described the Government’s position as

“a frankly pretty ridiculous position”.

The UK Government’s position is ridiculous, but it will also be calamitous for those who will be affected. It is no wonder that the charities and stakeholders who know most about the impact that the cuts will have have rightly called on the UK Government to think again. Macmillan Cancer Support, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, Scope, Mencap, Citizens Advice and dozens more all wrote a joint letter to the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the eve of her statement, in which they urged her to change course. On the day of the statement, End Child Poverty said:

“This government came to power with a commitment to significantly reduce the numbers of children living in poverty. Yet ... the recent proposed cuts to disability payments ... will ... pull more families into hardship.”

Despite our fixed budget and our limited powers, we have transformed social security provision in Scotland. We have established a radically different system that is actively and vigorously working to ensure that as many people as possible get the support that they are entitled to. I am delighted to say that, yesterday, we completed the national launch of the pension age disability payment, which means that people of any age in any part of Scotland will be able to apply for disability assistance from Social Security Scotland, not the DWP.

That is an important distinction, as our approach is to ensure that disabled people get the support that they are entitled to, while making sure that the application process is as straightforward as possible. Once an application has been submitted, it will go through a robust decision-making process.

In 2025-26, we will invest £3.6 billion in the adult disability payment, which is £314 million more than we are forecast to receive from the UK Government through the block grant adjustment. However, the UK Government’s planned cuts will lead to further cuts to our budget. We need to take time to work through and fully consider the significant impact that those cuts will have, but it will be significant. The Scottish Government estimates that the proposed reforms will result in the loss of £400 million from the block grant adjustment by 2029-30.

That said, I reassure the people of Scotland that the Scottish Government’s social security system will ensure that our fundamental principle of treating people with dignity, fairness and respect will continue to guide our approach.

While the UK Government is focusing on reducing the amount of money that is spent on supporting disabled people and others who need help, this Government believes that social security is an investment in the people of Scotland, in our communities and in all our futures. It is an investment because we know that inequality is bad for our health, our communities and our economy.

In the recently passed budget, the Scottish Government made a conscious decision to invest in social security for people in Scotland by investing £6.9 billion in benefits and payments for 2025-26. Behind that big number are the disabled people, the carers and the low-income families whom we support. When people question how much we spend on social security in Scotland, they need to be honest with everyone, if they are asking us to cut that amount, that they are asking us to cut the amount of support that we give to disabled people, carers and low-income families. They need to be up front with everyone about which of those groups they would wish to see those cuts coming down upon.

The investment that we have made is around £1.3 billion more than the funding that we received from the UK Government for social security, and it supports around 2 million people in total. I make it clear that our principles of dignity, fairness and respect also apply to our employability system, and our aim is to support people into the right job for the right circumstances at the right time. Through our no one left behind approach, person-centred employability services are available in every local authority for people of all ages who experience structural barriers to participation in the labour market. We want our services to be seen as opportunities for participants, not as threats.

Furthermore, we are committed to halving the disability employment gap and supporting disabled people to access and sustain fair work. That is why we are introducing specialist employment support for disabled people for summer 2025, which will enhance existing provision and support more disabled people to access and sustain meaningful employment. That is in contrast to the contradictory plans of the UK Government, which is looking to push as many people as possible into employment while simultaneously cutting the number of work coaches who are available to support people. That, to me, does not make sense.

We are also using our limited budget to mitigate some of the most damaging policies of the UK Government—

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-17242, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on the UK Government welfare reforms. I invite members who...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
I open this important debate with a message of solidarity: I want all disabled people to know that this Government stands with you in opposing the planned UK...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
He apologised!
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Oh, he apologised, I hear Mr Marra saying from a sedentary position. Well, that makes it fine, does it not? That makes it absolutely fine to say things like ...
Craig Hoy (South Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I will if I can get some time back. Can I, Presiding Officer?
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Yes.
Craig Hoy Con
I accept the cabinet secretary’s point in respect of the UK Government, but has the Scottish National Party Government not made the same mistake at various p...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Our benefits bill is not related to whether people are in or out of work—with the greatest respect to Mr Hoy, I think that he is conflating different issues....
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I will put party politics aside for a minute, Presiding Officer. The recent debates about Labour’s welfare changes, highly charged as they have been—and I am...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Liz Smith Con
I will, but I think that I am nearly out of time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Very briefly, cabinet secretary.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I thank Liz Smith for her contribution so far, much of which I agree with. However, the comparison that she has just made is unfair, because the 2.2 per cent...
Liz Smith Con
We do need to be careful, because the point has been raised by the Scottish Fiscal Commission. I am very aware of the saying that all political careers end...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
During the debate, we have already acknowledged the complexity of social security and the complexities of having a devolved system and a reserved system that...
Liz Smith Con
I entirely agree with that point, but how does that sit with the UK Labour Government’s intention to put more and more costs on to employers, who are the ver...
Paul O’Kane Lab
Liz Smith and I have debated the national insurance increase before, as she has with Mr Marra and other members in the chamber. That choice was made so as no...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
The day before the proposals were unveiled, Mr O’Kane and I were on a panel together, and he did not want to speculate. We do not have to speculate any more—...
Paul O’Kane Lab
The point that I was about to make is that the green paper contains a range of proposals. The cabinet secretary now wants to pick and choose and debate indiv...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
We all want more people to be in employment, particularly those with a disability. However, does Paul O’Kane recognise that getting more people into employme...
Paul O’Kane Lab
I was just coming on to talk about ADP and PIP and trying to understand our devolved context in relation to ADP. The reforms to PIP are at UK level; we have ...
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
This afternoon’s debate is a call to conscience. The Scottish Green Party believes in building a society in which everyone can live with dignity; in which co...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
The debate is about a number of competing challenges. It is about dignity for disabled people—particularly those in poverty. It is about balancing the books ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
We move to the open debate. Back benchers will have speeches of up to six minutes. 15:36
Collette Stevenson (East Kilbride) (SNP) SNP
Since the election last year, the Labour UK Government has failed to compensate the WASPI women—women against state pension inequality—and has scrapped winte...
Jeremy Balfour Con
I agree with the cabinet secretary that social security is a social investment, but a social investment has to be paid for. We have a £1 billion deficit comi...
Collette Stevenson SNP
The heart of the issue is about political choices, with social security being a human right. I will touch on that later. The DWP’s analysis has shown that i...
Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak in the debate, and I will direct my remarks to the Scottish Conservative amendment, in the name of Liz Smith. The amendment correctly ...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Does the member agree with her colleague Jeremy Balfour, who pointed out earlier in the debate that the ADP is not linked to employment, and nor should it be...