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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 April 2025

01 Apr 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Learning Disability, Autism and Neurodivergence Bill
Todd, Maree SNP Caithness, Sutherland and Ross Watch on SPTV

I am grateful to Daniel Johnson for lodging the motion and allowing us the opportunity to discuss an important topic. I am also grateful to the other members who contributed, many of whom have highlighted their personal experience. It is always powerful when members bring their own personal experience to the issues that we debate in the chamber.

In raising the topic for debate, Mr Johnson brings attention to the disadvantage and structural exclusion that neurodivergent people and people with learning disabilities experience. My work with and for those groups is a key part of my portfolio, but I also believe strongly that we need to change our approach in that area.

The motion that Mr Johnson lodged notes the disappointment that many people have expressed about the lengthened timescales for the LDAN bill. I acknowledge that neurodivergent people and people with learning disabilities have needed to campaign for far too long for the changes that they need. I understand how disappointing and frustrating that is, and I have met many individuals and our partners to express that I share their sense of frustration at the length of time that real change can take.

However, it is important that we recognise how far we have already come. The proposed bill started from a successful campaign by leading charities to highlight the need for greater accountability for those groups of people. From that early starting point, we have built a significant body of work over the past three years, and central to that has been the extensive consultation paper that was produced in partnership with the lived experience advisory panel. I am grateful to all the stakeholders who were involved in designing and responding to the consultation. The high number of responses that we received demonstrates the importance and relevance of the work.

I assure members around the chamber that the Government’s commitment to developing the LDAN bill has not changed. We have made a clear commitment that the work continues to progress and that the next steps will be for us to publish draft provisions with the benefit of the consultation evidence and further targeted engagement in forming our refined proposals.

The bill is, of course, only one piece of the puzzle, and members have rightly raised a number of other points that I wish to address in turn. In education, neurodivergent children benefit from existing protections under the Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004. Local councils have a legal duty to plan and provide support for neurodivergent children. It is important, however, to point out that it is not necessary for children to have a diagnosis to receive the support that they need when they are in school. It is important that I correct the motion, because it is not correct to say that only 6 per cent of teachers are trained to provide support with additional support needs. All teachers undertake ASN training during initial teacher education; indeed, that is a requirement to meet the professional standards for registration with the General Teaching Council for Scotland.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-16644, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on the learning disabilities, autism and neurodi...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I thank those members who signed my motion to enable the debate to happen. It is a very important debate, because it is difficult to overstate the level of f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Before we move to the open debate, I advise members that the debate is heavily oversubscribed, which will come as a surprise to nobody. I will therefore requ...
Karen Adam (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate my colleague Daniel Johnson on securing this members’ business debate, and I thank him for his continued openness on this issue. I, too, feel ...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing the debate to the chamber. Even during my campaign to be elected back in 2016, it was clear that more support was needed...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I commend my colleague Daniel Johnson for securing this members’ business debate, and I thank him and Karen Adam for their openness in talking about their ne...
Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) SNP
I, too, thank Daniel Johnson for securing the debate, which enables us to discuss the implications of not introducing a learning disability, autism and neuro...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing the debate to the chamber and for sharing his personal experience, because that really does matter. I also thank organisa...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
My friend Pam Duncan-Glancy is making a very compelling case. Does she agree that, in addition to the learning disability health checks, issues such as the “...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I thank the member for that intervention, and I whole-heartedly agree that people with learning disabilities and others will absolutely feel entirely failed....
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Michael has spent more than 15 years in hospital. He is autistic with a severe learning disability. He finds routine comforting, and unexpected changes cause...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, thank Daniel Johnson for bringing this very important issue to the chamber. I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives on this sub...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Before I call the next speaker in the open debate, I am minded, given the number of colleagues who still wish to participate, to accept a motion without noti...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing this important debate to the chamber. In working with other members across the parties, he has been a real champion in th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Stephanie Callaghan, who joins us remotely. I gather that we are having slight issues with Ms Callaghan’s camera, so I will go first to Stephen Kerr,...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Daniel Johnson gave a powerful and compelling speech, and a number of other members have given similarly compelling speeches. To be frank, it is to the shame...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Mr Kerr. I now call Stephanie Callaghan. We might still have issues with the visuals, but I hope that the audio is functioning. After that, we wil...
Stephanie Callaghan (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I wish that you had a better photograph of me on the screen, but we will let that pass. Again, I thank Daniel Johnson for brin...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank my good friend Daniel Johnson for bringing the debate to light. Reflecting ahead of it, I was conscious of the great range of my work as an MSP that...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank my friend and colleague Daniel Johnson for continuing to shine a light on this issue. The fact that we need to continue to shine that light should br...
The Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport (Maree Todd) SNP
I am grateful to Daniel Johnson for lodging the motion and allowing us the opportunity to discuss an important topic. I am also grateful to the other members...
Daniel Johnson Lab
The minister has corrected the motion, but can I just correct her? We are talking about ASN specialist teachers. Will she acknowledge that the number of spec...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back, minister.
Maree Todd SNP
As many of the people with whom we have engaged on the LDAN bill are well aware, we are continuing to make progress on the bill. As I have said, we will publ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
The minister is talking about steps that the Government is taking to improve services, but the services in question have been entirely withdrawn in a number ...
Maree Todd SNP
My officials have reached out to all the health board areas that have made such decisions. As I understand it, a process of redesign is under way, because th...
Michael Marra Lab
Will the minister give way?
Maree Todd SNP
I am sorry, but I really would like to progress. I have a number of issues that I want to get round to, including some of the issues that Mr Marra raised. W...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Briefly, minister.
Maree Todd SNP
Health checks, which are being delivered to thousands of people, are already yielding positive results in identifying unmet health needs and supporting acces...