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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 01 April 2025

01 Apr 2025 · S6 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Learning Disability, Autism and Neurodivergence Bill

I, too, thank Daniel Johnson for bringing this very important issue to the chamber. I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives on this subject, which has also been a topic of interest for the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, of which I am a member. So far, the committee has held three sessions on the learning disabilities, autism and neurodivergence bill, and today we held a session with the Scottish Human Rights Commission.

The evidence on the bill included private and public sessions with people with real-life experiences of learning disabilities, as well as a public session with the Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport. In today’s committee session with the SHRC, witnesses said that there was a clear absence of impact from the Scottish Government’s successive policies and plans when it comes to people transitioning from institutionalisation to independent living.

It is estimated that neurodevelopmental conditions affect between 10 and 15 per cent of the Scottish population. However, those conditions are significantly underdiagnosed. Neurodivergence and learning disabilities often co-occur, with an estimated 37 per cent of autistic people having a co-occurring learning disability. A total of 66 per cent of autistic people in Scotland say that they feel socially isolated, while the same percentage of autistic adults have considered suicide during their lifetime.

Two other areas were highlighted by witnesses during the committee’s sessions on the learning disabilities, autism and neurodivergence bill. One was the lack of assessment and diagnosis for learning disabilities, which has been mentioned today, and the second was the lack of adequate training for public bodies such as the police and councils. Witnesses said that such training was weak and not adequate or uniform. Many witnesses said that, because of the lack of training, they felt stereotyped and more likely to face discrimination.

Many survivors of domestic abuse who have learning disabilities said that they felt that they were not taken seriously when speaking to the police, as it was difficult for them to show emotion or to articulate what they wanted to put across. I spoke to a witness who said that black and minority ethnic people with learning disabilities faced more discrimination, with multilayered intersectional aspects. She said that she was discriminated against at work but did not know whether that discrimination came about because of her colour or her ability. She said that there was a lack of resource tailored towards BAME people with learning disabilities.

In one of the public evidence sessions on the learning disabilities, autism and neurodivergence bill, witnesses told us that the consultation was excessive. Many charities and individuals had to sacrifice a lot of time and resources to respond to the consultation only for the bill to never be published by the Scottish Government. People with real-life experience of learning disabilities said that they felt that they were at the bottom of the pile when it came to Scottish Government priorities.

We also heard that people with learning disabilities are more likely to be domestically abused. In fact, the minister said at committee, in response to one of my questions, that

“around 90 per cent of women with learning disabilities will experience gender-based violence.”

However, as I noted at that meeting, of the 64,000 incidents of domestic abuse that were recorded by Police Scotland last year, we do not know how many involved a victim with learning disabilities. In response to that point, the minister said that

“the data is weak, and more work needs to be done to improve that.”—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 3 December 2024; c 16-17.]

Data collection was also mentioned in today’s committee session with the Scottish Human Rights Commission. Those figures are shocking, and those people should no longer be let down.

In closing, I express my disappointment at the Scottish Government’s delay in introducing this vital legislation. More needs to be done, and I hope that warm words are turned into actions and that the Scottish Government provides clarity on its commitment to legislate in this area.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Liam McArthur) LD
The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-16644, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on the learning disabilities, autism and neurodi...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I thank those members who signed my motion to enable the debate to happen. It is a very important debate, because it is difficult to overstate the level of f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Before we move to the open debate, I advise members that the debate is heavily oversubscribed, which will come as a surprise to nobody. I will therefore requ...
Karen Adam (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate my colleague Daniel Johnson on securing this members’ business debate, and I thank him for his continued openness on this issue. I, too, feel ...
Alexander Burnett (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Con
I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing the debate to the chamber. Even during my campaign to be elected back in 2016, it was clear that more support was needed...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I commend my colleague Daniel Johnson for securing this members’ business debate, and I thank him and Karen Adam for their openness in talking about their ne...
Elena Whitham (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) SNP
I, too, thank Daniel Johnson for securing the debate, which enables us to discuss the implications of not introducing a learning disability, autism and neuro...
Pam Duncan-Glancy (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing the debate to the chamber and for sharing his personal experience, because that really does matter. I also thank organisa...
Paul O’Kane (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
My friend Pam Duncan-Glancy is making a very compelling case. Does she agree that, in addition to the learning disability health checks, issues such as the “...
Pam Duncan-Glancy Lab
I thank the member for that intervention, and I whole-heartedly agree that people with learning disabilities and others will absolutely feel entirely failed....
Maggie Chapman (North East Scotland) (Green) Green
Michael has spent more than 15 years in hospital. He is autistic with a severe learning disability. He finds routine comforting, and unexpected changes cause...
Pam Gosal (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I, too, thank Daniel Johnson for bringing this very important issue to the chamber. I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives on this sub...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Before I call the next speaker in the open debate, I am minded, given the number of colleagues who still wish to participate, to accept a motion without noti...
Carol Mochan (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing this important debate to the chamber. In working with other members across the parties, he has been a real champion in th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I call Stephanie Callaghan, who joins us remotely. I gather that we are having slight issues with Ms Callaghan’s camera, so I will go first to Stephen Kerr,...
Stephen Kerr (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
Daniel Johnson gave a powerful and compelling speech, and a number of other members have given similarly compelling speeches. To be frank, it is to the shame...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Thank you, Mr Kerr. I now call Stephanie Callaghan. We might still have issues with the visuals, but I hope that the audio is functioning. After that, we wil...
Stephanie Callaghan (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I wish that you had a better photograph of me on the screen, but we will let that pass. Again, I thank Daniel Johnson for brin...
Michael Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank my good friend Daniel Johnson for bringing the debate to light. Reflecting ahead of it, I was conscious of the great range of my work as an MSP that...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank my friend and colleague Daniel Johnson for continuing to shine a light on this issue. The fact that we need to continue to shine that light should br...
The Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport (Maree Todd) SNP
I am grateful to Daniel Johnson for lodging the motion and allowing us the opportunity to discuss an important topic. I am also grateful to the other members...
Daniel Johnson Lab
The minister has corrected the motion, but can I just correct her? We are talking about ASN specialist teachers. Will she acknowledge that the number of spec...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
I can give you the time back, minister.
Maree Todd SNP
As many of the people with whom we have engaged on the LDAN bill are well aware, we are continuing to make progress on the bill. As I have said, we will publ...
Daniel Johnson Lab
The minister is talking about steps that the Government is taking to improve services, but the services in question have been entirely withdrawn in a number ...
Maree Todd SNP
My officials have reached out to all the health board areas that have made such decisions. As I understand it, a process of redesign is under way, because th...
Michael Marra Lab
Will the minister give way?
Maree Todd SNP
I am sorry, but I really would like to progress. I have a number of issues that I want to get round to, including some of the issues that Mr Marra raised. W...
The Deputy Presiding Officer LD
Briefly, minister.
Maree Todd SNP
Health checks, which are being delivered to thousands of people, are already yielding positive results in identifying unmet health needs and supporting acces...