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Committee

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee 18 March 2025

18 Mar 2025 · S6 · Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Item of business
Building Safety and Maintenance
Sean Clerkin Watch on SPTV

I am going to bring up the idea of having Awaab’s law in Scotland again, if I may, because it is directly relevant to the question. The bottom line is that, until Awaab Ishak—the two-year-old child who lived in Rochdale—died, landlords were not dealing with the problem at all. They were rushed into dealing with it because it was suddenly a major problem for the authorities—the Governments in Edinburgh and London—after the coroner ruled that the death was caused by mould and damp. Before that, it was not considered to be a major problem, but it has been a major problem for years. There has to be proper statutory intervention—there has to be Awaab’s law in Scotland, and it must be better than the law that they have down south.

What would that law be? Number 1: it would require accurate and up-to-date property condition information based on comprehensive stock condition surveys, having an accurate database and knowing what the problems are. For example, when a home became void, you would go in and examine it to see if there was any damp or mould. You would have annual inspections in addition to any stock condition survey, and you would have accurate intelligible information about the condition of your stock.

Number 2: all employees of private and social landlords would need to be trained in identifying damp and mould, and any specialist contractors that they used would have to be trained and certificated in dealing with damp and mould. That would encourage landlords to be proactive instead of being reactive, as they tend to be now, and relying on tenants’ complaints. Tenants should not have to bear the burden of identifying damp and mould. For too long, the housing sector has lacked the knowledge and has been totally inadequate in dealing effectively with damp and mould.

We would also say that landlords must investigate all cases of damp and mould within a robust and specific timeframe. That would consist of information gathering; a thorough walk-through inspection of the external and internal parts of a property, in which precise measurements would be taken; and a systematic approach to addressing the root causes of the problems, ensuring long-term resolution and prevention.

In the same item of business

The Convener Green
The next item on our agenda is an evidence-taking session as part of our work on building safety and maintenance. We will be hearing this morning from two pa...
Aoife Deery (Citizens Advice Scotland)
Thank you, convener, and thank you for having us along to this morning’s session. As you will have seen from our written submission, we deal with a very hig...
The Convener Green
Thank you very much for that, Aoife. It certainly sounds like a pretty horrendous experience. My colleagues and I are getting similar cases in our inboxes; i...
Emma Saunders (Living Rent)
Good morning, everyone. I am very glad to be here. Just as Aoife Deery has said, it is hard to know what volume of complaints we get on these matters, becau...
Sean Clerkin (Scottish Tenants Organisation)
Over 90 per cent of our casework is with tenants who have rampant damp and mould. Essentially, we have an endemic damp and mould problem that is blighting th...
The Convener Green
I must stop you there, because we have specific questions about Awaab’s law. We will come on to that.
Sean Clerkin
Right. I will just finish by saying that the burden falls on the tenant, because the landlord regards them as the expert. They have to make the complaint and...
The Convener Green
That is great. Thank you, Sean, for highlighting your perspective that landlords do not understand the issues of damp and mould in their properties. Does an...
Shona Gorman (Tenants Together Scotland)
Good morning, and thank you so much for the opportunity to be here today. The examples that we have already heard this morning are pretty horrific. Although...
The Convener Green
Thanks very much for that. A panel of architect experts will be joining us after you, and maybe they can shed some light on those questions. I will now brin...
Willie Coffey (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) SNP
Good morning to everybody on the panel. Thinking about the examples that people have cited just now and in previous years, is it your experience that the da...
Sean Clerkin
I am going to bring up the idea of having Awaab’s law in Scotland again, if I may, because it is directly relevant to the question. The bottom line is that, ...
Willie Coffey SNP
Many thanks for that. I realise that I am probably encroaching on my colleagues’ questions, which will give you a chance to develop that theme. I would like...
Emma Saunders (Living Rent)
Yes. I will give an example from the private rented sector. Some people who were living down south, in England, were moving up to Edinburgh. They were not ab...
Willie Coffey SNP
Are there any other views from the panel on the idea of having some kind of front-end assessment of a property’s condition?
Aoife Deery
I think that it is a really good suggestion, particularly from the perspective of the social rented sector, where pre-tenancy checks are already carried out....
Willie Coffey SNP
Are there any other comments on that? 10:00
Shona Gorman
I think that it is an excellent idea and definitely something that should be pursued. We need that, but we also need landlords to talk to incoming tenants. W...
Willie Coffey SNP
Thanks very much for that, Shona. It leads me to the question that I was supposed to ask at the outset. Your submission to the committee highlighted to us th...
Shona Gorman
In the best of worlds, landlords do not want to have this issue. Reputationally, they cannot afford to have this issue, and, for the health and safety of the...
Willie Coffey SNP
Thank you, again, Shona. I will turn to Emma Saunders, briefly. Your submission told of the need for impartial independent expertise, advice and reports abo...
Emma Saunders
Thank you for bringing that up. The experiences of council tenants, social tenants and private tenants are different. In council and social housing, reports ...
Willie Coffey SNP
Who should do that kind of assessment?
Emma Saunders
It is hard to think about having a whole new system that is very expensive to run when we know that there is not enough money in the housing system. However,...
Sean Clerkin
I was going to say that part of the idea behind Awaab’s law was that there should be a statutory framework: we need a statutory framework in which expert wit...
Graham Simpson Con
The meeting has been very interesting so far. Before I ask about Awaab’s law, I note that we have had some discussion already about the need to look at build...
Shona Gorman
Yes, you are right—we do. This guttering thing will haunt me, probably. Can I say to my landlord, please, that I am not suggesting that they are not cleaning...
Graham Simpson Con
Do any witnesses have views on the responsibility of factors for maintaining buildings properly?
Emma Saunders
Our members mention problems with factors all the time—factors not doing their jobs and their not being able to hold factors accountable. Anything that can s...
Graham Simpson Con
I will turn to Awaab’s law. Sean Clerkin has made a couple of lengthy contributions on the matter already. However, I think that it is worth setting out the ...